The Disney 52 Animated Challenge: Year-Long Activity! NOW PLAYING: Nightmare Before Christmas

Discussion in 'DPF Game Room' started by MerlinEmrys, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    I was definitely wondering where you were for Snow! :D I'll respond more to this later, because there are some killer points.

    But to your Easter Egg point, did you catch the titles of the two books in the opening? :D[​IMG]

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  2. AshleyV

    AshleyV Well-Known Member

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    Ahh, I did not! Though those were still what, 11-13 years away from being released at the time? :)
     
  3. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    They were, but Walt bought the rights to them as soon as he knew Snow was a success. So they were "in the books" as they say.

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  4. AshleyV

    AshleyV Well-Known Member

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    What a great detail! Love it.
     
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  5. watzshakinbacon

    watzshakinbacon B for Belle or B for bacon?

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    @MerlinEmrys let me just say i love these little badges to keep track of progress!! so cute!

    Also, I totally thought of almost everything you said as well... that's why I initially wrote "jiminy cricket" for my answer for Q2, but then I really thought about it, and I was like... nope!
     
  6. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    Thank you! I'm actually quite pleased with them. XD

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  7. Disneychildwithin

    Disneychildwithin Well-Known Member

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    I just want to hop in and say I am really enjoying reading everyone's thoughts. You all are so smart! :) There are so many little things that have been brought to my attention that I wouldn't have noticed otherwise, not to mention all the education I'm getting on cinematography and history. Thanks!

    I had to chime in about Monstro...forget Jaws, I was terrified of this guy growing up! So much so that I just had to buy the Monstro snowglobe Disney made a few years back...scared to death of him but love him too...weird.
     
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  8. pincrazy

    pincrazy Active Member

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    Just wondering Merlin, what and when do extra credit get offered? There's some I know I'm not going to be able to watch....:(
    Hope they'll be easy? Or will they be watching a movie?
     
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  9. coblj003

    coblj003 DPF Charter Member DPF Correspondent

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    Have it on VHS, player is not working. Went to library, can't find card. Got home thinking I might end up missing the week challenge, turned on tv; on demand has Disney Family movie channel running free for a week promo with Pinocchio at top of the list, SCORE...
     
  10. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    If you look at the full schedule on the Google Docs, you'll see that some weeks have two films, and there are also some "Bonus" films on some weeks as well. There are a total of 58 films on the list, so you can miss 6 and still complete the 52 challenge.

    I may add a few more as well go along, but probably not more than an additional two or three. If you ever have trouble finding a film, let me know and I'll see what I can do to help. :)

    The first bonus is in mid April with Bedknobs and Broomsticks.

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  11. pincrazy

    pincrazy Active Member

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    Thank you Merlin, will check doc list, must have missed seeing extra movies. Seems like I'll have to check other libearies, my local is really small, not to say in LA we don't have more than 1. : p
    Very thoughtful of you to prelist. Seems my dvds are more current based, vhs for older, and laser disc for couple of classics (wished I had bought Song of the South Japanese release).. I better start checking off which ones I can do makeups on. : ]
     
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  12. Ajk

    Ajk New to DPF but not to trading

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    Ditto!
     
  13. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    Especially with these package films coming up in early February, I'll be posting links to shorts that will work for viewing. :)

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  14. pincrazy

    pincrazy Active Member

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    Sounds, good! Just checked what I have, hmmm guess I'm not a true Disney movie owner, found only 17dvds.
    How bout-"Donald in Mathmatics", i got that 1, its only 30 min, :p
     
  15. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

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    Pinocchio - another movie I haven't seen in quite some time! I seemed to remember more of this one than Snow White going into it, though there were parts I had forgotten about and parts that were much longer than I remembered them being (Monstro's chase at the end being one of them).

    (For confusion avoidance purposes, I will use Pinocchio when talking about the movie and Pinoch when talking about the character. ;) )

    1. Overall I enjoyed this movie. (Of the two so far from this series, I would watch it more often than Snow White, at least.) The songs were all pretty memorable, but none were annoyingly so. I didn't find the donkey scene particularly disturbing; it was definitely iconic, though! That is one scene that I definitely remembered from when I watched it decades ago.

    The casual racism had me a bit cringey, though. (Strombolli, I'm looking at you...)

    One thing I noticed during this watch through is how striking the rotoscoping of the Blue Fairy was. Snow White had it as well but it wasn't nearly as jarring. The Blue Fairy was the only character in the film to be drawn using this effect, and didn't mesh particularly well with the overly cartoony style of Pinoch. After a few moments, when I got used to it, though, I realized that it actually lent something to the film - it made her seem that much more ethereal and otherworldly than the other characters.

    Another thing I took note of was the paint style of this film in relation to Gepetto. Of the characters relevant to him in the film, Pinoch and Gepetto himself are colored in with bold colors, and except for Pinoch's feather, were solidly colored in. The other two - Figaro and Cleo - looked almost like watercolor paintings, with multiple paler colors mixed together. It's particularly evident on the tips of Figaro's fur.

    [​IMG]

    It almost seemed as if Gepetto crafted them as well.


    2. I think I connected most with Figaro, actually. When I watched it when I was little, I remember thinking Figaro was pretty mean. He didn't get along with Cleo, he was upset with Gepetto, etc. Watching it again now, I can tell that he wasn't mean - he was just being a cat! :) I think owning my own cat has given me some fresh perspective on Figaro (who is actually a lot nicer than my own cat would have been in those situations! ;) )

    (Cat twinsies!)

    [​IMG]

    I won't start a Figaro collection, I won't start a Figaro collection, I won't start a Figaro collection.....


    5. I'm actually going to choose something that's not within the story itself, but the title cards.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Right off the bat, before we are even introduced to any of the characters or story, we are presented with these images, which are essentially painted woodcarvings. Every single title card, of which there are about a dozen, has a different pattern to it, but they all cohesively work to introduce us to Gepetto, a woodcarver. They are as prolific and detailed as his many, many works of art.

    Also, I love how on each person's name going down the list, it alternates their first and last initial painted red. It's a small detail, but it shows that a) the team at Disney put enough care into the movie that they even went so far as to add that little detail, and b) it reflects the small details that Gepetto put into each one of his creations. As creepy as some of his clocks were, you have to admit that they were all masterfully crafted and painted down to the smallest detail.

    Additionally, the colors chosen for these title cards are the same colors that Pinoch wears, to tie them into the color scheme of the film.


    8. This one was a lot more "moral-ly" than Snow White. While Snow White did have a message behind it, it was more subtle. Pinocchio went a lot more into directly addressing the audience about "this is how you should act if you want to be a good person, a.k.a. a "real boy." " Also, Jiminy (and the other characters to an extent) broke the fourth wall almost more than he interacted with other characters, which brought us more into the world and the story than with Snow White where we were simply the audience watching an animated story. I felt more engaged with this one, and I think a good deal of that was due to this drastically different storytelling style.

    I thought that was an interesting contrast between the two movies.


    10. What single pin do you think best represents this film for you? Why? Give us the pin number and post a picture!

    [​IMG]

    Pin 6278 - Pinocchio - Gepetto Puppet

    This was one of the most iconic scenes in the movie for me. Gepetto strikes me as a particularly lonely man - he is surrounded by his clocks and music boxes and toys, but it seems as if he has very little human interaction. So he does what he loves to do and is most skilled at, and creates a son for himself out of wood. Most of his woodcarvings are for his shop, but Pinoch is just for him. This scene, once he finishes creating Pinoch and then dances him around and sings about him, struck me as sweet and shows how much love for Pinoch is in Gepetto's heart already, even before the Blue Fairy enchants him.


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    I can tell you have some strong feelings about Jiminy! I didn't get the same impression of him (except for the horn dog part, hahaha. Cricket dude liked himself some butts!)

    [​IMG]

    The way I see it, he was smitten with/enchanted by the Blue Fairy, and wasn't really paying attention. When she asked him if he wanted to be Pinoch's conscience, he agreed without really listening to what he was agreeing to. Once he realized, he decided to try his best at fulfilling his new obligation. He made mistakes due to his inexperience, but they generally seemed be to coming from a place of good intentions. I think it's somewhat unfair to expect him to be perfect at the job right off the bat, especially when he didn't come to the Blue Fairy willingly to volunteer and as far as we know, he didn't have any conscience-ing experience.


    Cleo should have been dead from water pollution long before this! All the wood shavings that must constantly get everywhere, when Gepetto puts out Pinocchio's burning finger in her bowl which turns the water black and makes her cough smoke, the piece of cake just chilling in her bowl...

    [​IMG]

    CAKE IN WATER DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
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  16. AshleyV

    AshleyV Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, that photo of Figaro and Socks is so cute that I think you may just have to start a Figaro collection... :)
     
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  17. timeerkat

    timeerkat Your Friend Who Likes To Play

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    No, temptress! ;) I'm trying really hard for no new collections this year! I do have a few Figaro/Mittens pins to satisfy the itch.
     
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  18. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

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    Great analysis, Timeerkat! I'm. Glad someone took up for poor Jiminy. XD I'll do a bigger response this evening. :)

    Just a reminder everyone, today's the last day for Pinocchio! :) you'll have until [whenever I wake up tomorrow morning] to post your analysis. :)

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  19. Tsuki

    Tsuki Active Member

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    Ohh this sounds fun!!! May stick it on later and join in ;)


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  20. NutMeg

    NutMeg I tie my own sandals.

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    Enjoying the responses so far; writing up my own analysis right now. One of these weeks I will get my assignment done before the last minute. Not anytime soon, but one of these weeks...

    Same! He's so underrated! Like @Disneychildwithin I remember being terrified of him as a child but somehow loving him too. But I was a weird kid who liked weird things (my favorite childhood toy was a black rubber bat with red eyes.)

    For real though. What a freakin' perv. Much like Grumpy's misogyny, I had apparently blocked this from my memory. Leering at those bizarrely sexual lady puppets... yeesh. Ditto to him being pretty much the worst "conscience" ever, and tbh the Blue Fairy really needs to be investigated for child endangerment. She just hires some random hobo bug who broke into an old man's house and has absolutely no credentials for a job in childcare? Yeah, there's some serious negligence going on there.

    [​IMG]

    New inspiration for @Purplemandms perhaps? xD

    Nicely observed!!

    [​IMG]

    I actually lol'ed at this. And somehow Cleo manages to stay firmly in her bowl throughout this entire ordeal...? WHY DID GEPETTO EVEN BRING HIS PETS???

    That was my reading of the scene. It definitely echos the Blue Fairy's entrance, with the letter descending from the heavens in a blueish glow. How she knew of Gepetto's predicament and why she refused to actually intervene like she did with Stromboli, however, is an utter mystery to me.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This struck me as well and is sometime I plan to touch upon at greater length in my analysis. /:

    I am currently trying to resist this temptation myself, and if I do succumb I fully intend to blame Merlin for making me re-watch this film in the first place. He can expect the receipts from all Figaro related purchases in the mail.
     
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  21. NutMeg

    NutMeg I tie my own sandals.

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    1. Overall Impression

    This is another film that, like Snow White, I haven't watched since I was very young. And, like Snow White, it's unfortunately gonna have to be another "meh" from me. With their sophomore film, released 3 years after Snow (1940), we see Disney continuing to work out the kinks with their transition from shorts to full-length features. In my opinion the film's primary problems lie with its inconsistencies, both tonally (like Snow, it flip flops between whimsical and quite grim) and thematically (more on its mixed messages later.) Likewise, the plotting is pretty uneven and sort of meanders through various short stories - again, Disney's inexperience with the 90 minute format is evident. Although to be fair, this was also just a relatively young era of motion pictures, so the now-conventional cinematic 3 act structure was still being mastered. (Look at the 1940 Best Picture Oscar winner, Alfred Hitchcock's Rebecca, which hews pretty closely to 3 act structure but still has some definite pacing issues.)

    But again, like Snow, this film certainly has its value, and can still be appreciated for its impressive technical achievement and overall imagination. I probably enjoyed it more than Snow; it was definitely more adventurous/exciting, and you can really see the animators becoming more ambitious, especially with the Blue Fairy sequences and the climatic Monstro scene.

    2. Character Connections

    OMG FIGARO. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE???

    [​IMG]

    Seriously, I cannot get over how flippin' cute he is. I'm in love. I think the reason I felt such an immediate connection to him is that he's basically the animated version of my cat, Gus, who pouts when he doesn't get enough attention from me and is a total Grumpy Gus (literally), but is also a secret softy who follows me around the house all day and always wants to cuddle (despite what his expression in this photo may suggest.)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    See the resemblance?? So yeah, like timeerkat I am currently trying to talk myself out of collecting Figaro. I *have* been thinking about starting a new collection this year anyway, but I don't think I have the energy (or money) to attempt a Disney Cat.

    As far as least favorite characters go, I'm gonna have to agree with Merlin and his Jiminy-related grievances. Seriously, how is he supposed to be the embodiment of ethical standards and personal accountability? He only volunteers for the position out of his own selfish interests - the possibility of glory/accolades, and because he kinda wants to get with the Blue Fairy... He's so distracted that he actually briefly forgets Pinocchio is even there.

    [​IMG]

    He's also super freaking petty - the moment P defies him by performing in Stromboli's show, he's all "go ahead, make a fool of yourself," and walks away in a huff. He knows P is making a big mistake, but still puts his own pride ahead of doing the right thing. He also initially tries to talk P out of going after Monstro. I guess one could argue that this is all part of Jiminy's arc from an extremely flawed character to an actual conscience. To his credit, he does return to help P escape from Stromboli and expresses regret for abandoning him, and he tags along to find Monstro after all, even after P tells him he needn't put himself in danger. This isn't an entirely unfounded reading of the text, but I do think it's an inherently poor storytelling choice (if that was the filmmaker's intent.) More on that in a bit.

    And let's not forget the troubling character of Stromboli, who definitely has some pretty racist overtones. His design is distinctly non-white (dark skin, thick black hair, brown eyes and big lips) and serves to communicate his status as the "other," especially relative to the film's "good" characters:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    He stands out against the other (clearly Caucasian) characters, both visually and audibly. He has a noticeably thicker accent and is the only character who speaks extensively in a foreign language, ranting angrily in Italian. (Despite the fact that the film is set in Italy and all of the characters are ostensibly Italian, Stromboli is not Anglicized/Americanized like the others.)

    Stromboli's ethnicity is never made explicit. It's likely that the filmmakers never actually had a specific race in mind, other than "not white." He's really just a typical Hollywood mishmash of cultural stereotypes meant to convey the simple identity of "ethnic"/"exotic" (much like how Japan, China and Korea all seem to be synonymous when it comes to Asian characters...) It should be noted, however, that Honest John does refer to Stromboli as "that old gypsy," suggesting that he may be Romani. That's definitely what I read his character as; he's a nomadic performer, he travels in a vardo, and he exhibits deeply bigoted traits associated with the Romani people, such as being greedy, underhanded, lecherous, hot-tempered and violent. Even the fact that he abducts children is an (oddly specific) Romani stereotype.

    7. Goal of the Film

    This is, obviously, a morality tale intended to preach to children about the importance of virtue and obedience. The main theme of the film can pretty much be summarized as "mind your parents, or else." Or, conversely, "mind your parents, and you will be rewarded." The film definitely tries to scare kids straight by depicting the horrific consequences of P's actions, but there's also a fair bit of incentivizing. P isn't automatically granted his humanity; he must earn it from the Blue Fairy, and is only rewarded after he stops misbehaving and proves his mettle. He must be a good boy before he can be a real boy.

    Yet there's also a parallel theme of dreamers being rewarded simply for being dreamers. It's that vague, now-ubiquitous Disney message about following your heart, never giving up hope, etc, etc... Or perhaps the best way to phrase it is with the film's own mantra: "When you wish upon a star, your dreams come true." I mean, there's a reason the Disney logo at the beginning of every movie has that little instrumental jingle from this specific tune. It's basically the entire Disney ethos boiled down to one single sentence.

    However, these two themes are not exactly harmonious. On the one hand, you have the message that one is not simply handed the things they want in life, but must earn them instead; on the other hand, you have the message that the only prerequisites for achieving one's desires are faith, trust, and pixie dust. The former message is certainly the more dominant of the two, but it doesn't help that the film opens with Jiminy's emotive song of hope (setting a very specific tone), followed by empathetic scenes of Geppetto's loneliness and longing for a child, a wish which is immediately granted. One might argue that G was already a good person, and therefore did not need to "earn" his wish, but according to that aforementioned opening song just minutes prior, it "makes no difference who you are - anything your heart desires will come to you." Apparently, "no request is too extreme;" as long as "your heart is in your dream," fate will be kind to you.

    So yeah, the film deals quite a bit in mixed metaphors. This is also especially true in regards to what I previously said about Jiminy's supposed character arc. Sure, P accomplishes a fair bit of self-growth as well, but he was growing from the ground up. He started as basically a malleable lump of clay, utterly dependent upon others to sculpt him. He doesn't exactly agree to go along with Honest John because he's enticed by the idea of celebrity, he's just naive and highly suggestible. He should be the one with the arc, with his figurative, internal transformation ultimately manifesting in his physical evolution.

    But it's just hard to actually fault him for his faults. I blame the adults around him: Geppetto, for tossing him out into the world and basically leaving him to his own devices, not even bothering to introduce him to anyone or walk him to school/show him how to get home; Jiminy (he better be an adult, that little perv), for being an overall terrible guardian; and of course Stromboli, Honest John and the Coachman. The incompetence of the adults really undermines the whole "obey your parents" message and themes of personal responsibility. Where's the blame for these adults...?

    9. Most Iconic Shot

    [​IMG]

    I couldn't resist. xD Seriously though, this shot sure seemed to linger, lol. Did anyone else kind of expect it to just cut to "THE END" after it faded to black?

    Anyway, I have to go with this one:

    [​IMG]

    The Blue Fairy bringing Pinocchio (and the story) to life. Definitely one of the most quintessential "Disney Magic" moments. I'm wondering how the transparent effect on the Fairy was achieved? My initial thought was naturally the multiplane camera, but only certain areas of her body are transparent, so that would mean that there were multiple layers used for just her character alone. Perhaps that's just how the cels are painted? NOT an easy effect to accomplish by hand!

    10. Best Pin

    Pin 25134:

    [​IMG]

    It's kinda silly looking (are they Siamese twins?), but I really like cinematic-feeling pins that depict specific scenes/moments (and this is certainly a pivotal moment.) If I were a fan of the film, I think I'd want this pin.

    Stray Thoughts...

    • What are the rules re: animals in this universe?? Figaro is a regular house cat, but Gideon is a humanoid feline who walks on two legs and wears clothing? Foxes are people? Crickets can speak, but fish can't?
    • This screenwriter sure hates actors, huh?
    • For some reason, I seem to recall Pinocchio's growing nose being a much larger aspect of the film. I was surprised when it only happened in one brief scene. I guess it's just a case of pop culture osmosis - the nose is probably what most people associate with his character, so maybe it just seeped into my impression of the film over the years.
    • Easily the most disturbing part of the jackass transformation scene was the children crying for their mothers. Oh no wait, the most disturbing part is that there's zero resolution whatsoever, so basically these poor little kids are just doomed to their hellish fate as deformed donkey slaves. Why didn't Jiminy or P do anything about this horrifying human rights violation?? GO TO THE POLICE.
     
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  22. xdattax

    xdattax Well-Known Member

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    OK, so we’re still doing the talk to text thing. So once again please forgive poor spelling bad grammar anything else like that that I don’t catch in the brief proofreading that I’m gonna give this before I post it. Plus I’m all kinds of exhausted but it’s either do or do not at this point for Pinocchio.

    Over all impressions
    Pinocchio is another movie I haven’t seen in probably 20 years. It was never one of my favorites as a kid however it was very interesting to watch the Disney version of it again as an adult, being as when I took Italian one in college we had to read it in the original language. Funny thing about Pinocchio, I always thought it was a German story as a kid. Probably because of the presence of the cuckoo clocks in the leader hose and white outfit that Pinocchio wears. However the name should’ve been a dead giveaway to its Italian heritage. Also the character Stromboli should have been a dead giveaway. The animation is very interesting because it seems grittier background wise than snow white was. I could also noticed this scratchiness around Figaro‘s ears in the black ink, as well as around the backgrounds in the wood of Geppetto shop. Also animation wise I felt that the final scene where monstro was chasing Pinocchio and Geppetto the water reminded me of the great wave painting from Japan. I’m not sure how much Asian art would have influenced Disney animators at that time but it was noticeable.

    Overall I felt that this movie had a much more Judeo Christian message than snow white did, pretty much in the blue fairy acting as an agent of God pushing the whole idea of truthfulness goodness morality as pathways to becoming a real boy: a human with a soul with a conscience. As a puppet, Pinocchio had sentence but he did not have a soul. This mirrors how some sex of Christianity feel that animals. Some people believe that animals have no souls therefore will not go to heaven. They can experience emotion but they are unlike humans in that aspect (I do not feel this way. in high school we had somebody come in to speak to our theology class that made the statement that when a dog dies it just dies it does not go to heaven. I was out sick that day from school but if I had been in class I would’ve walked out. Several of my classmates broke down crying especially the one girl who just recently lost a beloved dog. I certainly do not believe this is the case. If humans have anything like a soul I believe the animals also do.) sorry about the tangent just didn’t want anyone to think that I thought like that.


    Character connections
    I’m gonna go with the obvious one on this one. The way the story is written and filmed the viewer is likely going to connect with Pinocchio the most. We see his journey begin from birth to rebirth even though the story is told from Jiminy cricket’s point of view (mostly) since we can’t really see exactly what Pinocchio is thinking, we still are drawn to the character. He is completely innocent and malleable as we see from honest John and Stromboli lying to him and molding him for their own selfish reasons. He’s also very easily convinced as we see lampwick dragging him all over pleasure island.

    The character I felt least connected to was the coachman. Seem to be plopped in there for clot reasons. How we perhaps for Geppetto earlier in the movie one Pinocchio beware of the man who snatches little boys, we might have had a little more for boating with the coachman. Otherwise he just feels like evil to be evil. However the other side of the coach man is that he quite vile. He is essentially snatching little boys and turning them into donkeys once again for his own personal gain. I couldn’t help but notice the way the coachman was dressed in one scene in a very red outfit. It reminded me of the Cardinals in the Catholic Church. This is a more modern reading given the allegations of what’s been going on in the Catholic church for the past 50 or 60 years and not something I think that would’ve been perhaps brought up one this was animated.

    Song analysis
    When you wish upon a star is quintessential Disney. Not just the movie Pinocchio but the Disney parks Disney films everything that starts out with that castle image pretty much has the orchestra swell to when you wish upon a star. I knew it was from Pinocchio however since it’s been so long since I’ve seen it in that context, it’s very easy to remove it from that movie. I think that this song is very much a product of the time, the movie was being worked on when being hopeful and wishing for a brighter future was a big theme in America, so it worked out.

    Symbols
    Oh symbolism. This whole movie is a great big morality play. Some of the symbols are super obvious we have the giant whale which is reminiscent of the story Jonah and the whale, we have mischievous little boys being turned into jack asses, and we have cigars an pool being shown as sinful and immoral.
    I think pleasure island is the most simple Bolick sick scene in the movie. It stands for all of our base or interest. Now we are all here for the most part adults, so we know that in moderation drinking eating smoking isn’t that terrible (yeah yeah yeah I know about the smoking bit but back in then smoking a cigar was not that big of a deal and I’m from Miami and if you haven’t smoked a cigar look at in Miami well then you haven’t been in Miami very long) however the boys the coachman brings to pleasure Island have not yet learned that all things are good in moderation. They are giving into those Temptations. Pleasure island itself is a test with the demons turning them into the jackasses as punishment for failing that test and then being sent to hell.

    Iconic shot
    [​IMG]

    I really feel that the blue fairy transforming Pinocchio is the iconic shot of the movie. This is what sets the story in motion and gives us the rules for this universe.


    OK. Once again I’m doing this at night and I am exhausted. I’m about ready to cut my arm off, but since the machete’s outside I’m just gonna take me some Tylenol p.m. and hope to get a full nights worth of sleep. Once again I apologize if certain words don’t make sense that’s just my iPhone stupidity for not understanding how I speak and my poor proofreading skills right now.


    Edit to include obligatory vhs pic.

    [​IMG]


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    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
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  23. xdattax

    xdattax Well-Known Member

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    54   0   0

    So I read your analyzation after I posted mine, Nutmeg. Very well written, I enjoyed it a lot, i think i will be looking forward to your posts here. I did want to take up a little about Stromboli though.

    I also definitely see the gypsy parallel to him but I really think that Stromboli was probably Italian. He was ranting in Italian I’m not sure if it was real Italian or Italian-ish gibberish but I wanna go with you as ranting in Italian as opposed to ranting in Romany. I think if they really want to push that he was a gypsy they would’ve use that language, since you would not find much love for the Gypsies from anyone in the 30s and 40s.

    You also have to look at when the original story of Pinocchio, it was written in the 1880s. Italy was only been a unified country for I believe around 40 years at that point and if you’ve ever met an Italian they’re not gonna say that their Italian. They are going to say they’re Roman or the Neapolitan or their Sicilian. Even third and fourth generation Italian immigrant families such as mine, you cannot call us Italian you Gotta say Sicilian. And I can tell you that in Italy there is still some animosity between the former city states.

    Someone from Rome may or may not have a whole Lotta respect for someone from Venice. The dialects are a little bit different and between some of the dialects someone from northern Italy might not be able to understand somebody from southern Italy completely. Also there’s this idea in Italy that southern Italy which incidentally doesn’t see is much tourism is a little bit on the redneck side. There’s also the joke that Sicily is so redneck it was booted off the mainland. Granted redneck might be a little bit of an American word to use but the idea of it being the countryfolk is really what I’m getting at. There’s a lot of parts of southern Italy that don’t see a whole lot of tourism. You go to Rome you go to Venice you go to Naples you go to Torino you go to Florence not a lot of people are going to the south east corner of the boot. I’m wondering if perhaps Stromboli might have been the personification of some more upper class Italians looking down on the much more lower-class Italians.

    As for saying he was brown as opposed to white like the blue fairy or Geppetto again he very well could’ve been Italian. I myself am extremely fair. I always attributed to being partially Irish German Ukrainian as well as Sicilian however my great grandmother came from the mountains of Sicily. She was whiter than me and considering that she was a working woman that’s pretty impressive. my father, uncle, and brother however tan. My dad could go out in the sun and come back brown. My father could be so dark at any given time that people thought he was Cuban and not Sicilian. I was always very jealous of the fact that he could tan and I instead turn into the red lobster (see what I did there).



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  24. MerlinEmrys

    MerlinEmrys Hicitus Pinicus!

    Rating - 100%
    428   0   0

    Whoo hoo! Time for some responses! :D

    @timeerkat
    I really love your point about Figaro's style! Eric Larson (one of the Nine Old Men) was lead animator for Figaro and also a major animator for characters like Cinderella and the Owl from Bambi (where we especially see that sort of softness). Geppetto, on the other hand, was animated by Fred Moore, who was a lead animator on the Dwarfs in Snow White. So that would explain those connections! The nose on Geppetto definitely gives it away. XD

    Also, your note about the title cards! When I first saw it, I was like "IT'S A HIDDEN MESSAGE!!" And wrote out about seven or so letters before I realized it just alternated First and last names... I was majorly bummed.

    And as I said earlier, I'm glad someone took up for Jiminy. It's true, he never really claimed to be the paragon of morality and was rather thrust into the role by the Blue Fairy. But still, he so frequently turns tail in a huff that how can he expect Pinocchio to be any better? He just wasn't a good role model--but neither was anyone else in the film, honestly... And if the opening of the film, where it's just him, if he had mentioned something like "Well let you me tell you about how I learned to be a conscience..." that would give me some arc for his character to travel.

    But, not matter what, this will always be Jiminy Cricket to me.

    @NutMeg

    Your points about Stromboli are spot on. He's so excessively stereotyped, and definitely seems like a hodgepodge of ethnic. I too latched on to the "gypsy" comment from Honest John, which is what I ultimately settled on in my mind. His nomadic nature lines up with those stereotypes, but man, this one was quite extreme. Different time and all, sure, but oi.

    Side note, after some googling, I can't find anything about what Stromboli actually says. One person (who claims to be Italian on Yahoo Answers) says that it's just gibberish. So there's that. Seems fairly in line with our suppositions about his ethnicity.

    To your point about the film's message being not exactly harmonious with its two points (wishes come true / and / be good to earn a reward), I think this is something that rather haunts Disney, especially in the princess films. Something Joseph Campbell talks about in his Hero Quest Cycle is the use and need for the "super natural aide" character (Fairy Godmother, Merlin, Genie, anyone who provides magical help). However, once they get the Hero to a certain point, they back off and the Hero has to take the last steps. This idea lines up with Pinocchio fairly well as while the Blue Fairy does step in (a few times), it is ultimately Pinocchio who saves his family--and thus ties to the latter message of "work toward the goal for your reward." However, I think as the films continue forward, Disney leans more and more heavily into the "Wish Upon a Star" mentality and it becomes a lot of, for lack of a better word, wish-fulfillment. I think we will see this most when we hit Cinderella and that era. But it's interesting to see the discord between the two here.

    AND OH GOD I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THE BOYS THAT HAD ALREADY TURNED. WHAT IS UP WITH THAT.... THEIR POOR FAMILIES....


    @xdattax
    There's SO MUCH stuff in Pleasure Island to talk about. The whole idea of facades and the clown make-up on the buildings and signs adds a lot about what's hidden behind the whole operation...

    Also, while we are here, can we just stop and think for a moment about how terrible of an idea it was to name the west side of Disney Springs (then Downtown Disney in WDW) Pleasure Island!?!?!? Like, even as a teenager when I went for the first time I thought, "Wait...isn't this the donkey place from Pinocchio?" I wonder what the thought process was behind all of that....

     
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  25. slbrabham

    slbrabham Well-Known Member

    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0

    Pinocchio Movie Analyzation

    Pinocchio = movie
    P = character

    1.) Overall Impressions

    This is another movie that I couldn't remember ever viewing so watching it was a new experience. I wouldn't say that I enjoyed it, but it was interesting. As I watched it, I thought this movie was reflective of the time period in which it was made. I know many of the situations or characterizations that we today find harsh were acceptable for the period. For example, Stromboli was Italian, and Italians faced discrimination at that time. I think this movie reflects life and how people act more than the previous movie. P (like the kids of today and in the past) makes mistakes and isn't perfect. For example, he allows his friend Lampwick to talk him into going to Pleasure Island and "partying."

    I enjoyed the opening scene where the viewer sees Geppetto's workshop. The detail in the clocks was impressive. Some scenes were frightening, but it fits with goal of the film. The animation appeared to more detailed than Snow White. The Blue Fairy's appearance was really beautiful and in a different style than the other characters which impressed me. The water scene with Monstro was really amazing for the time.

    2.) Character Identification

    I identified with P because he had to make mistakes before he found his way home. P wasn't a bad person. He was naive and trusted the wrong people. However, when his family needed him he risked everything to go to his family. I like to think I I'm a good person, but I've made mistakes in my life, but my family was always there for me.

    I didn't identify with several characters, but the coachman was the most opposite to me. I wouldn't harm others the way he endangered the boys.

    3.) Scene Analyzation

    The "I'm a real boy" scene moves from a sad scene to a joyful scene and the lighting and music help convey this change. The scene begins somberly when P is on the bed, and it attempts to pull at the heart of the viewer. The camera moves from close on Pinocchio backwards to show everyone affected by his deaths. The music is slow with violins playing in the background. Geppetto's, Cleo, Jiminy, and Figaro are are crying as they view his body. The lighting is dark and somber. When the Blue Fairy appears the music changes tone and the scene become brighter. After the Blue Fairy makes P a real boy Geppetto is still consumed by his grief so he doesn't believe P is alive. Once he realized P is alive and real joy fills him. The music sounds more cheerful with a quicker tempo. Geppetto activates the music boxes to show his happiness.

    7.) Overall Goal
    Pinocchio is a morality tale. P as the protagonist represented children while the characters he meets are good or evil. These characters try to influence P as he tries to become a real boy. P makes numerous mistakes but his loving father forgives him and loves him. It is P's hard work and good choices at searching for and rescuing Geppetto that earns him his humanness. The movie does a good job of showing consequences for bad choices and evil actions while showing the rewards of hard work and good actions.

    The movie shows that kids should listen to their parents or bad things will happen. P made faced choices that most kids face. Should I go to school or should I sneak off and have fun? Should I listen to friends or my family? P chose unwisely and faced drastic consequences. When P put family first and worked hard, he was rewarded and saved.

    10.) Pin
    [​IMG]

    This pin shows the iconic scene of the Blue Fairy granting Geppetto's wish by using magic to make the puppet come to life.


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