How to Invest in Pins?

Hi there,

I still consider myself pretty new to the pin trading scene. I only started in late 2013 when I got my first DLP annual pass. Now I do get more pins on my wanted list than before but I'm curious when long time traders started making the decision on which pins are worth investing in. Not just because it's a pin that they wanted that's easy to understand But for possibly using that pin to finally get some of their grail pins.

I ask more so because I'll be going to the DLP Alice in Phantomland event and it's my first event. I see a lot of people already pre-selling the pins on ebay and other places. Their prices are crazy high and I think taking advantage of some people. But I wondered at what point is it okay to start spending so much on pins because you see it as an investment. Or is it better to just spend that money on buying a pin you're looking for directly say through ebay.

I've never really bought pins that are more than say 8 Euros thinking of using them to trade with. And limiteds I've bought so far are really just cause I want them. Not all of the pins at this event I'd want to keep but I am not a rich person. I'm having a hard time knowing if this is an opportunity to invest in my future pins in a big way or these things often turn into a sour deal and I should just hold out to buy a pin directly.

Hello,
I'm not an expert in PT so take my answer as an unexperienced one, if you will.
First off, I don't like the word "investing", sorry, it reminds me of people who would buy pins for the ONLY goal of making money out of it selling them on eBay. And I can't stress the word ONLY enough.
Second, if you think the share market is volatile and difficult to predict, well, pins are even more difficult. There are moment of craziness for some Movies/Characters/etc. that are short-lived and die out easily, with prices behaving accordingly. Some keep and even increase their (perceived) value. There is no insurance (aside from a few, very limited cases) of a pin keeping or increasing its market value, which is incredibly difficult to define to start with.
Recently, to give you an example, I was selling a pin and priced it at X, thinking it was a bargain already (for the buyer). Had a guy genuinely thinking that pin was worth X/3. Who's right? Well, both. Many times you have the seller putting a price thinking "It makes no sense to me selling below this" and a buyer thinking "It makes no sense to me wasting more than this money on it".
So, to answer your question, well, there is not an answer. But if you came this far reading I applaud you, and you deserve some guidance that, I repeat, comes from me, applies to me, and isn't guaranteed to work.
Right now the big craze is PTD, even if it looks to me that it will eventually die off more than a fair bit. Frozen has been a huuuuuge hit, still is, but it's coming back to "feasible" levels. In general, most "stable" pins are older DA (LE 100 in particular, of course), LEs related to some "historical" movies, and so on. Ebay will give you a decent idea, more on the upper side of the price bracket certainly.
Since you are based in France, well, bad luck xD. Very few DLP pins are highly priced on the other side of the pond, and possibly even fewer from DSEU. If you want to buy something that would help you getting to your grails, I highly recommend PTN Pins and pins from Events (this depends from the Event of course, I can predict the AiP Pins to be quite sought after). Generally pins from PTDs and Limited Edition ask for lower prices and have lower request, and sometimes you can get lucky with boosters (I sold a WALL-E booster from 2011 at a price you would not believe).
Again, this is just my two cents, wait for someone else with more "chevrons" than me on his imaginary pin trading shoulder.

It's definitely an interesting question!

Unlike a lot of collectibles, Disneyana tends to keep its value, at the very least, and a lot of it tends to increase with enough time. So, barring a huge global collapse, or really bad buying decisions, you should be okay as far as not losing your money. How much profit (in trade or cash) you make is the iffy part, and depends largely on trends. I don't know if anyone saw the PTD or Beloved Tales trends coming...

While some people seem to do okay making money at pins, I doubt you'll get rich doing it. However, it is nice to sometimes recover some of your expenses, or to fund your hobby with smart purchases.

In regards to whether or not you should actually spend that money that way, or just buy what you want...the answer is to do a mix. It's always best to get a pin as close to retail cost as possible (obviously). So if something on your Wants list is retail (whether from Disney directly, or sitting on Ebay), I'd pull the trigger...especially on low edition pins. Same for pins you think will make good traders.

As far as older pins that you Want...that's trickier. I have gotten some AMAZING Grails through trading, and saved a lot of money doing so. Pins I bought at retail from Disney (especially from ds.com) have gotten me the bulk of my Collection. But sometimes, trading is like having two hay stacks searching for each other's needles. In those cases, when you find a Grail (ESPECIALLY an old and HTF one), and it's at a competitive price, it's important to spend the money there. Don't forget- prices spike and dip all the time. At one point in time, my favorite Grails were going for $300+. I was able to get them for around $100 a pop, and one of them for $66. Sometimes, playing the waiting game is good. It can also shoot you in the foot (as many Princess collectors will tell you right now).

Summed up- if a pin that you just have that gut feeling about is close to retail, grab it and sit on it for a while! But don't be scared to get your Grails if they're a fair price (just don't over-pay for traders).


Next, in talking about buying trades now, in hopes that they'll increase in value and be able to get you HTG pins...I usually consider a few things:

-Is the pin in high demand/anticipated and/or of a low edition size/rare?
-Is it from a hard-to-get location or event?
-Is it a popular character or theme?
-Is it a good design or eye-catching?

Sometimes, my gut knows right away if a pin will be a future grail-level pin (like Art of Ariel). Other times, they can surprise you! But don't be too sad if you trade away a pin that later skyrockets in value. Because chances are you have a pin in your collection that you traded for that also skyrocketed, and that trader is kicking themselves for THAT trade. :lol: It's the circle of life, and in the end, it all balances out.

So- in conclusion to this rather long-winded reply to your questions....

-Yes, you should stock up on some good, solid traders. You can get some amazing trades that way.
-However, you should always take your budget into account (don't over-extend yourself)
-You don't have to falsely inflate your prices like the pre-sellers do. If the pin is good, it will speak for itself
-But sometimes it might take a while
-Finally, don't get discouraged if a pin you get doesn't take off like you expected...it's a balance.
One you didn't expect will take off instead. No one is 100% right all of the time.

Urk. Sorry if that was rambling. It's 6 AM over here...

No, no thanks for the reply Abyssinian28 that's a lot of really good input. I appreciate it.

TheirryHenry thanks for the reply as well! I see your point on the word investment. I hadn't thought of it in that way but I see what you mean.



For me, my grail pins are not easily found, they are the Gargoyles pins from the Disney Afternoon series. There was very few ever made and next to no one trading them. Then it trickles down from there.

With this event coming there is an artist signing and I was thinking would that ever justify me buying the 69 Euro jumbo pin (which so many people are thinking will be a Cheshire cat pin) thinking one day it might get me what I'm looking for. It's just been something on my mind for several nights now and I'm really lost on if I'd be making a bad choice to try and further my collection in that way.

I see people also selling the pins for double easily what the pins cost on other sites which yeah that would make your pin free in the long run if you find buyers I just am scared of not getting a return and being left with pins. I'm not much of a gambler if you can't tell ;p

Maybe I'll try to go for quantity and get more of the lower priced ones rather than going in for one large. I don't like the idea of people selling them for crazy prices but attaching 5-10 euros more for your time waiting in line etc I get.

But yeah thanks for the advice so far. It's nice seeing a community so open. When I've tried to approach the pin traders that around at DLP set up around the Pueblo I often feel like I'm getting the cold shoulder I've only traded about 3 times with anyone there so I'm hoping this event will really be fun and not have the feeling I get at the park. I even ask questions at the group on FB and never get replies sometimes even though I've speaking in French too. I hope my experiences in the US will be better once I move back.

I'm a collector but very rarely a trader. I just don't have the time for that. I would say, however, that both Wonderland and Mansion/Manor are pretty popular subjects in the pin world, especially Wonderland. Trends come and go as mentioned above, but Alice pins seem to be pretty steady, so I would think that those event pins would be excellent to have as traders. Not an expert here, but that's what I'd guess. Hope you have lots of fun at the event!

Spend money if you want the pin (and can afford it). Simple.

First, I tell people this is an expensive hobby, period. If you can't afford pins, don't get into the hobby (at least if you really want to collect). It's possible to trade and such on low budget, but if you want to start collecting the harder to find pins (such as LE100, Auctions, etc...), prepare to pay up.

Second, decide what you want to do. Do you want to trade just for the sake of trading, or do you want to collect for yourself? It's easy to keep a low budget when you're just trading; you buy booster sets, you find $10 pins on Ebay, etc... But if you want to collect, you'll start wanting the hard pins (like I said above).

Third, based on 1 and 3, decide what is your limit. My limit depends on the pin. Understand that if you really want to collect, that there are $$$ pins out there. And the prices are justified.

In short, this is all personal. Me, I buy what I want to collect. I don't invest much in traders anymore because the money I spend on traders, is money well spent on actual collection pieces. I save up, I spend. I have never had regrets either, when buying a pin. And between us, my highest spending was $450 and I would have spent $550 on another pin that same week if the seller wouldn't be such a pain in the ***.

As for the Alice event, do you want to spend that much money? If you do, get them and trade them. If you don't, save up the money and buy a grail. I, personally, prefer to do the latter. You easily lose hundreds of euros on those events because you can have multiple sets per person, per family, etc... The amount of "hundreds of euros" I spend there, I'd rather spend on a grail on Ebay you would never be able to trade for a few new LE Paris pins.

If it were me going I'd definitely pick up the PTN pins in duplicate , even unpopular characters seem to trade/sell well . As for the rest , I'd be aiming to get duplicates of the lot but if I couldn't afford that maybe anything with Alice or Cheshire Cat on , these seem slightly more popular . Anything of LE below 500 too as I could probably find someone interested in it .
What is it you actually collect ? Maybe there's someone here who might pre-trade with you , then you could buy confident in getting what you're after .

Thank you Tiggerific, that was my thought too that it's a well established collectors series but I've heard very mixed reviews from people on liking all the pins for the event.

OlafOlaf, that's some good points you have. I think I really enjoy the trading part of it the most. The limited aspect of the pins is not really what draws me to them as much as the characters/movies I'm trying to collect.

Speedwaystar1, My biggest pins I want are the Gargoyles pins from the tv series but there were very few made and are hard to find, from there it's Disney Afternoon, Tron, Rocketeer, Atlantis, and Treasure Planet pins and in general all DLP cast lanyard refresher pins. Since DLP is where I got started I've fallen in love with these pins they are always so great!

Pins are not an investment - they're a hobby.

Buy pins because you like them, not because you think they're worth money or will retain any value in the future.

Looks like there is a pretty even divide on how people approach getting pins. Thanks for all the advice guys.

Ooooooh a Rocketeer collector! That should be your starter collection. It's not terribly expensive to find Rocketeer pins on ebay, and most aren't all that expensive, with the exception of the Marquee. I know from experience, as my husband is a Rocketeer collector and almost completist. There's only 30 or so pins to conquer

In response to the original question, I agree with alot that has been already said. It really depends on if you want to be a buying collector or a trading collector. I live in Southern California and try to make it to the DSSH releases to use as traders for pins that go in my collection. If youre going to trade, you really need to take advantage of the opportunities to stock up on location specific pins, like the Paris PTNs/Event pins. Just know, someone is always looking for your pin... you just have to be patient enough to find that person. Olafolaf made an excellent point, spending hundreds on a grail as opposed to spending hundreds on PTNs hoping to trade multiples for a grail. I have spent my fair share of $$$ on pins, including an LE100 Emperors New Groove pin that I just knew I'd never get my hands on while trading. Sometimes buying is the only way to get those grails you speak of.

Trading is supposed to be fun and I think here on DPF is the only place I have fun doing it. I'm terrified to go up to the tables at DLR. I'm like the George McFly of pin trading... I just don't think I can take that kind of rejection. More often than not, for me, it's so incredibly intimidating to see these traders standing in line at DSSH with lanyards full of THOUSANDS of dollars worth of pins. I just don't even make eye contact.

I hope you're able to find some of those coveted gargoyles you seek Happy trading/buying/collecting

ah yes Rocketeer, it's one of my favorite film and my brother's as well so I'm trying to get doubles of Rocketeer pins and all things TRON. Those limiteds of Tron I'm very much wanting.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Quit while you can...

Haha! Yes I'm starting to see how it can be a hole.

When I was real young I collected pin backs and buttons all the time. I even have a button machine of my own that makes great stuff. It's only natural I'd fall into this I'm just sad I didn't know about it when I first moved to France in 2007. Of course that would have been me and my husband living on 1,500 euros a month for two people So maybe it is a good thing I didn't know about it then.

Jabberwocky said:

Pins are not an investment - they're a hobby.

Buy pins because you like them, not because you think they're worth money or will retain any value in the future.

Click to expand...

But her question wasn't just about "making money"...investing in something can mean a lot of different things. In this case, she was wondering about whether it was worth it to beef up her traders or not.

I wouldn't have half the pins that I do if I hadn't "invested" in pins that I thought would be good traders (like Guest Star Stitch, or nice Jessica pins). Lucky for me, I was usually right, and they got me some Grails that I might have never found for sale, or I got them for a fraction of the going rate.

I'll throw my two pennies into the mix - most of which you have already read...

I just started collecting pins seriously less than a year ago. I started out buying everything, as I only had a few pins to trade. I have been able to get a few of my "Wants" through trading but most I have had to buy.

I am now buying less and less traders and spending the money on the pins I want for my own collection.

Having said that, those Alice Phantomland pins are DEFINITELY pins I will be trying to buy from someone. I LOVE them - even though the Cheshire cat is no where to be seen.

I'm a firm believer that you should collect only what you love - that way it does not matter if it goes up in value or not.

Hope that helps,
Christine

Thanks everyone,

And yes I was not thinking of them as ways to earn extra income. I'd be willing to buy any of the pins for people outright if they wanted. But I think there are only one or two is consider for my collection mostly to remember my time at DLP and the event as it's my first one.

Everyone has pretty much covered all the angles, but I'll say this: If you have opportunities to pick up potential traders at cost, you should take advantage of it. Not everyone is in a position to do that. A lot really depends on opportunity and how you want to spend your time and money. I'm a collector. I buy all my pins. But that's because I have ZERO opportunities to acquire pins at cost (ok, with DS.com, I have as good a chance as anybody ... but the only time I get up at 3 am for any type of online release is when it's something I want for my own collection. I value sleep more than I value pin-trading, ha). For me to get "good" traders that might have a chance of helping me acquire my grails, I'd have to spend buckets of money. At that rate, for me personally, I'd rather just save up the money and wait for a grail to appear for sale. That's just me and my priorities and my lack of patience and expensive taste, ha. If more of my "wanted" pins were NOT old, HTF, LE100 Disney Auctions pins, I could probably "invest" in trader pins and have an easier time getting something I want in exchange for them. But current circumstances mean I'm going to have to buy other HTF, LE pins at high cost, be out the money, and hang onto them for who knows how long until I find someone with a pin I want who happens to want the pin(s) I've acquired as traders. Um, right. I have a full-time job already, and this is supposed to be a fun hobby, ha ha. So I do what's best for me, and you have to decide what works for you. But, as I said at the beginning, I think if you have a chance to get pins like the Alice in Phantomland pins at cost (factoring in the event ticket and transportation, etc, yes), you should be able to find someone who wants them. Good luck in this hobby, no matter how you decide to approach it! =)

Not a good idea to invest in pins, lol.

Maybe it's a poor choice of words, but I am not sure what word could be better to explain what I'm meaning. But I think I'll open a pre-sale post on DPF when I get back from vacation for anyone trying to get them.

Again, thanks for all the input and advice. It's nice to get so many perspectives since I can't get much conversation from other traders I've met here in France. I appreciate it.

I am also very, VERY new to trading/collecting (just a few months of 'serious' collecting)

A few months ago i watched a little video on YouTube where the person touched breifly on how to gather good traders (which i would say is 'investing' if you are looking to trade/sell them to get your wants).

Obviously trends come and go, and Frozen is hot right now (hehe now thats an oxymoron) but this person mentioned that Jessica Rabbit is always in demand (lots of collectors) , as well as Little Mermaid and Hercules (uncommon pins/hard to find)

Just my two cents.

How kind of you! I'll definitely be looking for that pre-sale post ~ Thanks!

Collectibles are probably the worst types of personal property to invest in. Don't get me wrong . . . you can occasionally make a profit, but to do so you would really need to acquire the item at a low cost, such as by purchasing it at a yard sale. But it's usually not a good idea to pay full boat for a collectible item in the hopes that it will increase in value (unless you just like it and want it for yourself).