Any update to having "Reserve" auctions and general question

[broncobilly83]

Last that was updated about this was:

At this point, we have not yet made a decision, however, I can say that reserves will be allowed. We're just trying to sort out _how_ and to what extent we will allow them, to ensure most will be happy (can't please everybody! but we're trying...)

at this point in time, however, the current rules stay. Which means no reserves at this point until we make an announcement regarding them, and change the auction house forum rules accordingly.

I was just wondering, thanks!

Also, something I noticed was that some auctions being done are for "Disney themed" items, not just pins. Has that rule changed?

 

[PrincessBecky]

I was also wondering about people bidding things they don't actually have in-hand for auctions...

For instance, someone bids a Lion King PODM (which is not out yet), the auctioneer accepts their bid and declares them the winner. The release date for the Lion King PODM arrives, and the auction winner finds out they aren't able to get one. What happens then?

Also, people bidding pins that are "coming in the mail". Like if someone says "I just made a trade for this pin, I don't have it in hand yet, but will bid it". What if hypothetically the pin never arrives, or arrives damaged?

I have made bids in auctions for pre-trades as well...so I am not against it per-se...but I also don't know how "fair" it is, considering if the bidder can't follow through with their bid...was the auction all for nothing? Or in the event that the winner can't make the trade, does the auctioneer have to accept the second-place bid?

Just curious.

 

[allenmay8]

I agree.. You should not be able to bid pins you do not have in hand. I think it just causes more problems down the line when the actual trade happens.

 

[Vixy]

I admit my opinion is a bit biased because I've made such bids myself; I saw others doing so, so I assumed it must be okay.

I think bids of pins not in hand should be allowed, but required to be fully disclosed (when I bid a pin I've paid for but not received, I say so, including whether I've got a DC#, etc. I've never bid a pin I just *hope* to get, like one that's not released yet) and that the auctioneer should have the right to refuse to accept that kind of bid if they don't want the risk. I also usually suggest that the auctioneer wait and not send me their pin until after I get the pin to send them.

I don't know what would happen if the pin arrived damaged, though. Personally I would offer something else or just cancel the trade, but that might not be satisfactory to everyone. Maybe the bids could be allowed but there could be specific guidelines set out about what to do in the event that the bidder can't fulfill the bid for whatever reason.

 

[5titch]

I would say bids like that would totally depend on how long the auction last
Like if the auction last for 2 days, and you bought the pin you want to trade 4 days ago (and it was shipped than) than chances are you may receive it on time
If you don't think you will get it in time, you could always just ask the auctioneer what their preference on something like that would be

But than the downfall with that is like mentioned above
What if the pin becomes damaged in shipping? Do you have another pin that would make up for it, or does the auction go the the #2 spot?

 

[allenmay8]

This is exactly why it should not be allowed. Problems like damaged pins DO happen! Say for example someone won an auction today, and they bid a Lion King PODM... if, for some reason, they are unable to get one, their bid is now inadequate compared to other bids in that auction. Even if the person who auctioned the pin off would take another pin from the winners collection, that is not fair. It is as if the winner gets a second chance, and the auctioneer gets to pick from the winners pins. During a normal auction, the auctioneer cannot pick what pins they want from the bidders. They just have to accept the bids they are given.

 

[CrashMyParty]

I can see where it can be an issue bidding pins you don't have in hand, but personally I think it should be allowed and if the pin(s) are damaged or unable to be obtained, there should be compensation for that pin in either $ or pins, although that probably would not be allowed because DPF is not a cash auction site. If the auctioneer does not want any of the pins offered to compensate for the orginal bidded pin(s), winner should be the second place bidder.

 

[Vixy]

Even if the person who auctioned the pin off would take another pin from the winners collection, that is not fair. It is as if the winner gets a second chance, and the auctioneer gets to pick from the winners pins. During a normal auction, the auctioneer cannot pick what pins they want from the bidders. They just have to accept the bids they are given.

Hm. That's an excellent point.

It would be more fair if a rule were established that if for some reason the winning bidder can't deliver the pin (for whatever reason-- damage, unable to buy, etc.)-- that the auction then must go to the #2. Except that the #2 bidder might have already bid/traded the pin elsewhere after the auction ends.

Hrm. You might be changing my mind on this.

 

[Vixy]

It would be more fair if a rule were established that if for some reason the winning bidder can't deliver the pin (for whatever reason-- damage, unable to buy, etc.)-- that the auction then must go to the #2. Except that the #2 bidder might have already bid/traded the pin elsewhere after the auction ends.

Quoting myself here because I've still been pondering this. The above situation could happen with bidding pins not in hand... but it could just as easily happen with bidding pins you do have in hand. A pin I bid could be damaged or lost by the post office when I ship it to the auctioneer. Then the exact same conundrum applies; does it go to the #2, or do I offer a new pin, or is the trade canceled? Even if pre-trade bids are eliminated, that risk still exists; it's inherent in the auction system, I think.

 

[5titch]

I can say this now that Im annoyed with USPS
Never expect your pin on time
Mine should had been here Tuesday and I think it is still in MS?
Shipped in the wrong direction, lol
And a pin I shipped that should had arrived Wednesday might get there today?
And the above pin was a zap, so no biggie

 

[Cicada]

I can say this now that Im annoyed with USPS
Never expect your pin on time
Mine should had been here Tuesday and I think it is still in MS?
Shipped in the wrong direction, lol
And a pin I shipped that should had arrived Wednesday might get there today?
And the above pin was a zap, so no biggie

been hearing tons of horror stories about USPS lately; not just here, but other forums as well (non-pin-reelated).

 

[Romancing_Train]

I have a friend who lives in New Zealand of which I trade art with. She is basically giving up after years of sending her art all over the world because so much of her art has been eaten by usps and is never seen again or destoryed when it's delivered.

 

[rubyslipperedgoddess]

I think that it should be up to the auctioneer holding the auction whether they want to accept bids for pins that either the bidder does not currently have on hand whether that's a pre-trade of because they're waiting on the pin to arrive from elsewhere. However it should be stated up front if this is the case so the auctioneer has the choice to accept or not accept. As for problems with the pins being bid being damaged, well this can happen at anytime, as we have heard a few horror stories. Pins can get damaged during transit, they can get damaged as we're preparing to ship them, this should be handled like any other trade the 2 parties come to an agreement. And finally I think that if the auction trade falls through than it should be up to the discretion of the auctioneer, I don't think that by any means you should have to accept the runner ups offer, after all there is a reason that they weren't the winner. Both in regular auctions and ebay auctions the auctioneer is not required to offer their item to the 2nd place bidder if things go wrong with the original bidder. These are things that should be left up to the auctioneer, as is the case for any other auction. No one should be forced to make a trade if things fall through, if the terms have changed than you should have every right to decide what you want to do with your own pin.

 

[Cicada]

Also, regarding reserves, the team is working diligently on some guidelines/some way to quantify a way of having reserves. Everyone will be notified if this changes.

Until then the rules stay at "no reserves", so please realize that there is always a risk of not getting an offer you like when auctioning. and as always, there is always a risk when trading through post.

 

[Mahrii]

I would say that if I bid a PODM for example and I'm unable to get it, that I would then buy the pin and send it to the person, there are always tons of pins for sale on eBay, and evening DPF.

This is exactly why it should not be allowed. Problems like damaged pins DO happen! Say for example someone won an auction today, and they bid a Lion King PODM... if, for some reason, they are unable to get one, their bid is now inadequate compared to other bids in that auction. Even if the person who auctioned the pin off would take another pin from the winners collection, that is not fair. It is as if the winner gets a second chance, and the auctioneer gets to pick from the winners pins. During a normal auction, the auctioneer cannot pick what pins they want from the bidders. They just have to accept the bids they are given.

 

[Mahrii]

Would there be a way to at least Make a rule that there needs to be a minimum number of bids before the auctioneer is required to trade the pin? Perhaps say that there needs to be a minimum of three offers made, that way the auctioneer at least has to choose from three offers. And maybe if we start telling people more often to please try to offer something of equal value t the pin being auctioned. I know you can't enforce it, but there has to be a way to prevent a hidden Mickey from winning an le509 Disney auction pin for example.

Also, regarding reserves, the team is working diligently on some guidelines/some way to quantify a way of having reserves. Everyone will be notified if this changes.

Until then the rules stay at "no reserves", so please realize that there is always a risk of not getting an offer you like when auctioning. and as always, there is always a risk when trading through post.

 

[Cicada]

Would there be a way to at least Make a rule that there needs to be a minimum number of bids before the auctioneer is required to trade the pin? Perhaps say that there needs to be a minimum of three offers made, that way the auctioneer at least has to choose from three offers. And maybe if we start telling people more often to please try to offer something of equal value t the pin being auctioned. I know you can't enforce it, but there has to be a way to prevent a hidden Mickey from winning an le509 Disney auction pin for example.

that's a great suggestion, and im sure we can work with it.

thanks!