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If EBAY knows about these...*WARNING* random ranting lies ahead!

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If EBAY knows about these...*WARNING* random ranting lies ahead!
NChouser

NChouser

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Just thinking out loud.

If Ebay knows and has dealt with these scrapper sellers...then why allow them to even post the items. I mean they HAVE to know that 100 legit disney pins will NEVER sell for 100 dollars. NEVER. They must have seen this data over the years with the amount of cases opened and money paid out of their pocket. They pull other listings for far less obvious reasons.

My only thought of why EBAY is allowing it is this....


It all falls back onto the buyers shoulders. According to the feedback of these 100 pins for 100 dollars sellers...they are all positive. So that means the buyers are not educated at all on what is fake and what is real. They buy the pins and get what they think is the STEAL of a lifetime meanwhile flooding the parks with scrappers and giving positive feedback to the seller. EBAY has no reason to pull these sellers items because their feedback is perfect and for the ones that do complain ( Myself just recently) Ebay will just pay the money back and move on. They probably make more off of those 2,000 positive feedbacks than paying us our X amount of money for the 100 negative. If you do not complain and leave neg feedback then it is like it never happened.



So I am almost tempted to create a listing. Post a generic photo. Eat the listing fees and make it a useful spot for educating those who visit.

That is just my opinion. What do you guys think about this? I know it is always buyer beware BUT not when some idiots are buying 100 pins for 100 dollars and then flooding WDW or DLR with them. Just horrible.



Oh well. My rant has been too long now. If you read this I am sorry for the run on sentences and my ******.... I have to go to bed...10 hour days at work for the next month while we rollout Windows 7 to a bunch of women ( no offense to the ladies of DPF) :) :)
 
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I actually had a small victory with a seller on eBay. As I was becoming educated on scrappers, I went through my collection to see how many that I enjoyed were genuine, and how many were (excuse the wording) tarnished by knowing that they were no good, as far as the ethics of the trading community were concerned. (Who wants to be the person, knowing or ignorant of scrappers, who's trying to push off inferior goods?)

So I started a correspondence with a buyer, and actually got an apology AND an offer to replace the scrappers (his only defense being that he sold them by the lots as they came in - but a little time and research to pick out the scrappers can go a long way with collectors, I told him).

There was a suggestion in another thread to ask sellers to e-mail pictures of the fronts and backs of pins. I've had a couple actually send me close-ups (and I've offered the same to buyers), but I can see where a few might be reluctant when it comes to entire lots of pins (which people should be wary of purchasing in the first place).

I'm right with you on the idea of putting up an auction to educate people. However, if you want to not have to eat the costs, how about a blog/tumblr/twitter combination (people *do* search for specific labels and tags who are into this sort of thing), to educate people. Put the links in your profile on eBay, and refer people to the online guides whenever you put something up for sale.

I've been toying with doing something similar, but I am still in the "learning" phase of things, and unfortunately don't realize I have scrappers until well after they're up on the wall as part of the "pins I think look cool" section of my collection.
 
NChouser said:
So that means the buyers are not educated at all on what is fake and what is real.
Click to expand...

It also means that *buyers don't care* if it is fake or real.

During our WDW trips I have seen that a great deal of pin traders are kids. In WDW, CMs almost never ever refuse a trade, let alone with kids. Now, if you are a parent who has already shelled tons of money for that vacation, why would you care if the pin you are getting for your kid is scrapper or authentic?? Especially when you know your kid has a 70/30 (not sure of this ratio, just a guess) chance of ending up with a scrapper pin after a trade.

I am not by any means defending scrapper sellers or buyers, but trying to explain why people might not care even if they know the difference. My 6 yr old kid, on the other hand, already knows to turn the pin around and check the borders :lol:

On a different note, a CM in Tomorrowland refused me a trade for because she did not know that it was a genuine Disney pin.
 
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You can start a blog on eBay to educate people about pins. I've always wished I had the money to list about 20 piles of pins and at the very end of the list say "Just for your education, these are all scrappers and not worth any money at all. If it sounds too good to be true - it probably is."

But in their infinite wisdom, they would probably pull my listing.
 
swim2sea said:
You can start a blog on eBay to educate people about pins.
Click to expand...

That would be a great idea! Maybe you can have few simple listings on Ebay and then give links to your pin blog - not sure if Ebay would allow this though.

Actually, there is already a tutorial on Ebay about scrapper/unauthorized/bootleg pins. I know that there is at least one user who did this. I can not post that link here as per forum rules, but I will PM you the link
 
Merryweather, I'm pretty sure you can link to a blog, both an eBay one and an external one. So I wholeheartedly agree with you that this is an excellent idea! In an ideal setting, buyers, sellers, and CMs would be educated on pin authenticity (the picture of the bell pin makes me giggle and sigh simultaneously, because we have one of those on the card in our collection). Unfortunately, between buyers who don't care so long as someone will buy what they have, eBay - who ultimately just wants their cut, and everyone else who isn't as dedicated as people in the pin trading community (the same can be said for any hobby, from pins to CCGs, to books), the onus is on the buyer/trader. This forum, the eBay guides, people's individual efforts are providing a great pool of resources. Now the buyers and traders need to jump in and take a swim.
 
First of all, someone said "BUYERS DONT CARE". Not true in all cases. When we first started we just thought it was a great deal. Some people actually believe that and buy them in good faith. They are not all as educated as us.

second, the people selling are representing them as real pins. Ebay can not check every single item, not only pins, for aunthenticity. They have to assume sellers are being honest. Some sellers actually do sell real lots, just not for 50 cents or a dollar a pin.

It is not ebays fault. If I shoot and kill someone, is it the gun manufacturers fault? Maybe the bullet maker? You have to think where the responsibility lies.
If ebay gets complaints about a single seller, they will in fact watch and possible remove that seller. And then that seller will just sign up under a different name and continue.

Dont fault all buyers. Some genuinely believe they are buying real pins and getting a deal. Everything in life is buyer beware. You need to do your research.
How would you feel if you were selling a surplus of REAL pins to thin out your collection and were suspected by ebay just because other sellers are selling scrappers. They can not control this.

Sure they want to make money on transactions but the legality is not in their hands. I may be selling an authentic autographed baseball signed by Mickey Mantle. Do they have to make sure I am selling the real thing? NO...........

Just my thoughts for you to think about.

Educate the people.
 
You are right Dan. I won't disagree that this is a caveat emptor issue. There are many sellers on eBay who believe they have the real thing, and you can't always tell how genuine a pin is from the photograph. And you can't fault eBay because they can't simply keep track of every single item (nor should they have to, honestly, because they are providing the forum). Much like I only saw an oddly-cooked grilled cheese where others saw a holy image, what's valuable to a person is subjective. Someone may like Figment, and may be willing to buy heart-shaped pins with Figment on them, regardless of if the colors are slightly off, even if the pins themselves are considered scrappers. Another person may only want the genuine article. Someone may be wondering why the heck there are all these Figment pins when he came here looking for a Honus Wagner card.

I think it's up to the buyer. Sometimes people buy things just because they "look cool." Some people sell things because they don't know what they have (like how I got a bunch of Flying Tigers memorabilia for $15 at a garage sale once), and serious traders and collectors know what to look for as far as the "real thing" is concerned.

You can put up all the guides up that you want (and I wholeheartedly encourage an availability of information) to educate people - buyers and sellers alike - but until the individual takes the time to actually read, P.T. Barnum will always be right.

That being said, I'm thinking about throwing together a blog (promoted on Twitter, Tumblr, G+, and whatever other outlets anyone thinks would be useful) to point out the differences between real pins and scrappers, and was wondering if any of the more knowledgeable folks here (which would be anyone other than myself) would like to be authors, content providers? Or am I way off the mark here, and the fuming should live and smolder in this thread?
 
DPintrader said:
You are right Dan. I won't disagree that this is a caveat emptor issue. There are many sellers on eBay who believe they have the real thing, and you can't always tell how genuine a pin is from the photograph. And you can't fault eBay because they can't simply keep track of every single item (nor should they have to, honestly, because they are providing the forum). Much like I only saw an oddly-cooked grilled cheese where others saw a holy image, what's valuable to a person is subjective. Someone may like Figment, and may be willing to buy heart-shaped pins with Figment on them, regardless of if the colors are slightly off, even if the pins themselves are considered scrappers. Another person may only want the genuine article. Someone may be wondering why the heck there are all these Figment pins when he came here looking for a Honus Wagner card.

I think it's up to the buyer. Sometimes people buy things just because they "look cool." Some people sell things because they don't know what they have (like how I got a bunch of Flying Tigers memorabilia for $15 at a garage sale once), and serious traders and collectors know what to look for as far as the "real thing" is concerned.

You can put up all the guides up that you want (and I wholeheartedly encourage an availability of information) to educate people - buyers and sellers alike - but until the individual takes the time to actually read, P.T. Barnum will always be right.

That being said, I'm thinking about throwing together a blog (promoted on Twitter, Tumblr, G+, and whatever other outlets anyone thinks would be useful) to point out the differences between real pins and scrappers, and was wondering if any of the more knowledgeable folks here (which would be anyone other than myself) would like to be authors, content providers? Or am I way off the mark here, and the fuming should live and smolder in this thread?
Click to expand...

I don't have anything to input myself, but I just had to say that you are so well spoken. It was a treat to read what you had to say, and the eloquence in the way you said it. Oh, and thank you for being so passionate about the subject... I wish more people were.
 
Thank you. I'm both humbled and encouraged. I'm passionate as much as anyone who really enjoys a hobby (or anything, really) and has discovered that certain aspects are fraudulent - pins, collecting art (and I consider this to be in that category), books, autographs, you name it. One can either give up and go home from the fair with a deflated balloon, or enjoy the party and try to teach others how to avoid unexpected let-downs. Tomorrow (or today, technically) or Monday I will actually work on a blog/tumblr/twitter project for this. I will gladly hand over the permissions to anyone who wants in on this, as I could confidently provide examples of scrappers for all of four or five pins. I'm still new to this, and still sifting through information (though a couple of you here have been kind enough to give me a lot of links). The caveat here is that we can't make people become educated on this matter, but we can at least be prominent and highly visible with anyone remotely questioning the authenticity of a pin.
 
Sorry to say this, but, a fool and their money are soon parted.

Definately, we want to continue to educate the ones of us that will go the extra mile to become educated in our passion.
 
Sadly, you answered your own question. eBay allows this to continue because the money they get from these sellers is far more than any other cost, including reimbursing you for a purchase through paypal. The latter rarely ever happens. The only way eBay will crack down on such sellers is if Disney pursues the issue.

This is kind of a tangent, but I would make the arguement that Disney benefits off of scrappers as well. It gives people a cheap way to get into pin trading, and once they are hooked, they will start paying 15 dollars or more for brand new LE pins that cost them pennies to make.
 
i still vote that we set up sum kind of fake/scraper pin hater day. we will teach ppl about there pins at the park..(picnic area) and mayb do sum trade in of fake/scraper pins for a real disney pin. It woul dto 2 things... 1) help ppl know what pins are bad and how to look for them. also were not to buy them.... and 2) lets see how many fake/scrappers we can take out of the game in one day.. Geoff and i have talked and would b down to sum how do sumthing like this. we just need other ppl that think its a good idea and may b could help. Hey just a idea.but mayb we could talk with chum and see if we can do it on the side of a pot luck day.
 
Gabby572 said:
Are there any eBay sellers you can actually trust to buy pins from?
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Absolutely, but there is always a risk. As you saw from this thread, even good feedback could be misleading. The things I look for are good feedback, and the location of the seller. Location is weighed pretty heavily into my decision to buy. For example, someone selling lots of rare pins that lives in California or Florida makes sense to me, since they live closer to the parks. If you have someone in China selling 100 trader pins for 60 dollars, it does not take a genius to put together what is going on.

Last but not least, I make sure to fund my paypal purchases through my credit card. On top of being protected by eBay and PayPal, I can also take advantage of a credit cards ability to file a "charge back". Long story short, the seller is forced to give your money back, and it's up to the seller to provide evidence to get their money back. I have had to use it once before, and they were completely at the mercy of my bank.
 
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What is the most reliable way to verify that a pin seller on eBay is selling legitimate pins? Photos of front and rear of the pins? I'm asking because I've started selling mine on eBay too.
 
iamdisneydan said:
First of all, someone said "BUYERS DONT CARE". Not true in all cases. When we first started we just thought it was a great deal. Some people actually believe that and buy them in good faith. They are not all as educated as us.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree with this more. I am pretty new to pins still & went to eBay in hopes of finding some pins that I wouldn't be able to find in the park. I didn't buy any lots, just single pins from one user in the USA and they all turned out to be fake. The only reason at this point that I knew about real vs. fake pins was thanks to a user on ebay who took the time out to write some lengthy guides out. They helped me tremendously & without those guides I would have had no idea about fake pins being out on the market. I did let the seller know they were fake, which they said was not true & that they had just got them from trades in the park. Like everyone keeps saying though, without being educated of course these could be traded in the park. I, however know now that I would hate to buy real pins just to turn around and trade them for fakes, so I am becoming more cautious with my trades. I have found a few great sellers on ebay who have sold me real pins at about the same price I would get them at the parks, and I am willing to pay it because I can't get to the parks as easily as everyone else can. We just have to keep putting the word out about these fake pins and hope everyone catches on. I am also still learning, but at least I am more aware now of what is going on thanks to people out there that are trying to help educate us on pins.
 
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I am more so saying that when you see a listing ( tons of them right now) for 50 pins for 50 dollars... that is an obvious red flag that even my dogs would figure out.... I agree that Ebay can not sit there and study every listing.... I just wish something can be done about it...that is all!
 
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