GRAIL Splurging on a Grail: How do you decide?

[Addicted to Alice Pins]

OK, I've been wanting to ask this for a couple weeks now. Elsewhere in this forum is the wonderful "Patience Is a Virtue" thread about the pin gods smiling on you when the time is right.

But sometimes you hesitate to spend too much on a pin, only to discover that the market swings to your disadvantage and now you will have to spend EVEN MORE on a grail if you're ever going to add it to your collection. In other words, for every great deal or stroke of luck, it seems like there is a "Darn, I should have ..." moment.

Like, I remember a few occasions when I saw the Alice Beloved Tales, new on card, for about $80. Both times, I didn't have $80 to spare. I let them go. And now every time I see one for sale, it's at least $200. I know everything in the pin world is cyclical, but does anyone really think the older BTs are going to drop to, like, $50 one day? And/or how many decades would that take even if it did happen? (Yes, I have no patience. Ha.)

So how do you decide when to suck it up and splurge on a grail? What considerations/rationale do you factor into your decision? If you splurge, do you consciously avoid new listings for it so you don't notice if a cheaper option becomes available? How often do you regret those splurges?

I'm talking 100% keeper pins that will stay in your collection unless or until a dire emergency arises that necessitates selling (and even then you'd auction a kidney before you'd part with that particular pin). And yes, buying/selling, because I'm in the subgroup on this forum with no regular access to parks or other sources of "at cost" pins. Trading just doesn't work for me, because acquiring pins to use as traders is so time-consuming and expensive that I'd rather just buy the exact pins I want.

Discuss! =)

 

[Jabberwocky]

I honestly cannot think of one grail I regret buying.

I only regret the ones I didn't and am still looking for after nearly a decade.

That said, I'm the doom-and-gloomsayer who believes the pin market doesn't have more than another two years in it tops. But I've always maintained since I began collecting pins (after having been burned in wasted money on beanies I collected for the hunt rather than for the love) - don't collect anything with the idea that it will maintain its value. Assume that whatever you spend $300 on today will be worth .30 in five years. With that in mind - will you still love what you collect if it's worthless? Then you're collecting the right thing. If you spend $300 now that you would regret having spent if it becomes worthless, you're collecting the wrong thing.

I've collected Wonderland my entire life. Wonderland pins were a side collection that became a main focus of my main collection - but ultimately they'll always be part of my main collection, so I'm happy with what I have even if they became financially worthless in a few years. They're Wonderland. They make me smile. It's all good.

 

[OlafOlaf]

I usually go over a few simple questions and decide from there.

1) Do I REALLY want it now? If yes, move along.
2) Is it a vhtf pin? (Meaning "is it up for sale very rarely?") If yes, move along.
3) Is the price fair/a good deal? If yes, move along.
4) Do I want to spend that much money on a pin that is, let's be honest, a piece of metal?
5) Aside from WANT; CAN I spend that much money?

I usually say no to the 4th and 5th question tbh. I've never spent more than $180 on a pin. I've regretted some purchases because of money issues, but for the pin itself, never regretted it.

 

[hopemax]

I started collecting Beloved Tales about a year before they went insane. I passed on paying $20 for the Snow White and Cinderella ones, because I hate paying more than retail for pins. Kick myself every time I look at my pins. But I'm still mostly okay with it. Far more pins go down in value than they go up. Even pins that go up, come back down. Maybe, never that low again. But there are Tangled grails that were going for $1000 that are more about $500 now. Even with BT's, things like Robin Hood was going for like $400, but completed auctions show a couple at $300 that didn't sell. As long as this "princess bug" lasts, the princess ones will stay high. But you never know when the hobby is going to change. A few years from now, demographics could change and Pixar pins become the thing everyone needs to collect, and no one wants a Princess anything. When pin trading started, Princess collectors were few and far between, while people fought over Villains, Tinker Bell and Stitch, so it can swing the other way too.

The thing that concerns me, is how many of my fellow collectors I have seen spend hundreds of dollars on pins and then a few months later find themselves with an emergency situation and then need the cash for rent, food, car repairs, medical expenses, vet bills, etc. You can feel the double dose of pain in their posts, first, from the stress of the situation and not having the funds has added to their lives, and second, from having to part with something so loved. Having some sort of emergency fund (even if it's only $1000) can make the difference between never having to part with them and making them the first thing that must go. Grandma gave you money? Got an unexpected bonus at work? If you have that safety net, have at it. I'm not trying to encourage people to never make that big purchase. It's just it gets to be very easy to just get carried away from seeing all the other collectors adding grail pins to their collection, that in order to feel like "part of the group" you have to do it too. Or your collection will never be worthy. Financial discipline has its rewards, although it's not as Instagram worthy as "look at my pin mail!" After collecting for the almost 15 years of pin trading, time will take care of your collection. It will grow, bigger and more beautiful than you can imagine. Someday you will have more discretionary funds, the longer you go on you gain a better sense of which really are those special pins that you can't live with out (there are pins I thought I needed, but then I found out that I kept making a choice not to get them, and so I decided to stop worrying about them and redirect my energies.

That said, mostly like I said, I don't like paying much more than retail. If it is a low LE, I try to keep in under double, original price. There are a few thing I have a higher limit for. Right now that's Beloved Tales. There my limit is $50-$60. If I could ever find the BatB for $100 like it used to be, I'd do that. But I could never spend the $800 for the BIN listings until I was in a financial position where $800 felt like $80. Most I have spent is $100 on a DSF Olaf. You can get him for $80 now. I'm okay, because I bought him when my Mom got her original cancer diagnosis and I knew that for the next 4 months I wasn't going to be on Ebay buying pins. So I bought 1 pin, instead of several pins, but my overall expenditure for a certain period was the same. And I have the satisfaction of knowing that he is never going anywhere, because the rest of my house is in order.

 

[Addicted to Alice Pins]

I love that this forum is (despite changing times) still full of smart and thoughtful people.

Jabberwocky, you know you and I are simpatico as far as love of Wonderland goes. ;-) So yes, if it's an Alice pin, it's for love more than "ability to flip for a profit in years to come." I have a second collection (Frozen) and I've bought and sold and avoided and wanted pins for that collection. But the Alice pins I acquire are always the ones I REALLY want and can't imagine parting with. As OlafOlaf said, I wouldn't regret the pin. It's the loss of cash that might sting at some point, ha. But not in the long term "this pin is a source of joy in my permanent collection" way.

And Hopemax, financial security vs discretionary income is definitely a huge consideration. As others have indicated elsewhere, it's necessary in this hobby to have a reasonable budget and stick to it as much as possible. I don't have boatloads of $$$ to spend, but I also do not have kids or a mortgage, which leaves me with some "fun" money as well as an emergency fund in reserve. The question is the best use of the "fun" fund.

I think my struggle--besides the valid point of "it's just a piece of metal" that is given subjective and volatile value by crazed human beings just like me, ha ha--is the money spent on a single pin. With the same $$$, I could buy multiple other pins (or other things entirely). Malificent913 has a thread about this very point. But I also know that my grails are my grails and they ARE my most wanted pins. So every time I spend that $$$ on other items or "lesser" pins in my wants, it's sort of like me accumulating "junk" (not really junk, but you know what I mean) while my true wants remain elusive. Maybe it's better to "invest" (and I don't mean that "with an eye to selling later") in one pin that I REALLLLLLLLY want than to buy lots of little things that I don't care as much about.

Thanks for the input; additional viewpoints totally welcome!!!

 

[tiggeriffic]

Everyone has to decide for themselves what is right for them. If I find a pin I've been looking for over the past few years, I will just get it if it's reasonable/fair. I haven't regretted those decisions but I would probably regret it if I let them go. Of course, money is the main issue. I'd never buy something just because of its' perceived value and I have no intention of getting rid of any of my collections I've worked so hard on.

 

[squidget]

When I started buying pins and collecting last year I had lots of discretionary income. I was living at home almost rent free with a great job! Then I decided to buy a condo and suddenly all my money was gone and now I'm finding it tough to stop buying pins. But I've really cut down and I've never been okay with spending ridiculous amounts on pins. The most I've spent on one pin is 45$ on a 101 Dalmatians podm. Now I'm focused on trying to trade for my current most wanted to complete the few collections I've started and then I will probably have to be on hiatus for awhile just enjoying the pins I have. It's so hard to pass up when you see a great price on pins you want but I think saving up and waiting for the right price is the way to go. I didn't think I would ever own the 10th anniversary batb stained glass hinged pin but then I was on kijiji and someone was selling lots of older pins for 5$ each and that was one of them! Sometimes things work out if you just wait!

 

[froggerway]

The key word here is "grail". If I can swing it, I splurge! It's different for other wanted pins, though. Those I cautiously watch on the sales threads and on eBay to determine what I'm willing to spend. But it's hard to define a spending system or technique when each pin has different considerations; at least to me they do. :dunno:

 

[LadyArmonua]

I personally draw the line at paying more than double for a pin; a $15 pin retail I'll buy for $30, maybe $40, but more than that and I don't feel comfortable with it. Of course that does have a sliding scale. If a pin is $40 retail, I'll pay $80. There's a pin I have my eye on that was $50 when it was on sale, low LE and a jumbo, and now it's on the 'bay for $100. I'm okay with that, I just don't have the money for it this month.

I'm lucky in the case that a lot of my grails aren't highly sought after so I do have some slack when it comes to what I'd have to pay on the secondary market. There are a couple of pins I've got a good long while before I'll get the chance to get my hands on, I know that. The Iron Man comic cover from the Avengers premiere way back when is going for $950 right now...yeah, no. I will never, ever pay a grand for one pin. I don't care if it's gold and covered in diamonds, I don't need a pretty piece of metal I plan to shadowbox that badly.

 

[hopemax]

If pin money really is "fun money" than usually I find it competes with things like eating out, and travel. So the reason I have a hard time spending $300, on a single pin, is I think, "that's an airline ticket to either DL or WDW." I'd definitely rather have a pin than a pair of shoes, concert tickets, golf (things other people have no problem spending on). So it becomes a matter of how satisfied I am with those other discretionary things. If I'm feeling good, then more money for pins. If I want to go somewhere, then the pins get put on hold.

If it comes down to "yes, the money is just pin money," then it's a matter of how you collect. I find myself most satisfied when I get the final pin in a particular sub-group. So 5 pins is often preferable to one, for me. With my Figments, I am most satisfied when I find one of the 80's or a Jumbo, or one from 2000-2007 (after that they just exploded in volume, so getting one, doesn't make me feel like I'm "making progress," even if I know it is HTF). If you are feeling like you are "collecting junk" buy buying multiple lesser pins, than trying out a different strategy may be warranted, and if it ends up feeling good, then you have a new plan of attack. If not, then you still learned an important lesson about your collecting style. And the one pin is like the pair of shoes that ended up giving you blisters, or the meal that really wasn't very good. Those type of things happen to all of us more often than we'd like, and we survive.

 

[Addicted to Alice Pins]

I'd definitely rather have a pin than a pair of shoes, concert tickets, golf (things other people have no problem spending on). So it becomes a matter of how satisfied I am with those other discretionary things. If I'm feeling good, then more money for pins. If I want to go somewhere, then the pins get put on hold.

Yes, this exactly. Somehow or other, I will end up spending the "fun" money. The question is to what use do I put it, which as others have said, is about priorities. I don't "need" more shoes/clothes/handbags or what have you any more than I "need" pins (we've all seen that discussion, ha ha). But what do I *want* more? I think right now I'm tired of "never" knocking off any Alice grails, so it's her time in the Priority Spotlight. If something else comes up that I want more, or for which time is more "of the essence" ... well, waiting to see if a better deal on a pin comes along is the default plan of (non)action, ha ha. And therefore that BT (for example, although it's just one of many) has time to go down in average asking price. Or not. Ha ha.

 

[FarFromDreams]

I have set price limits for each of my grails after studying the values, although I still can't bring myself to spend $100 on a single pin. (But I'm a grad student so that's the cost of a textbook or food for a month) I also have the bad luck of getting sniped when I'm wavering on my price limits and end losing sleep over a pin that way all the time. (Three pins come to mind :suspect I can be patient but when there's a pin that doesn't come around very often I panic and try to go for it.

I have only regretted splurging for a pin once, and that was when it went for half of what I had just payed for it. I still love the pin but somehow it's a little tarnished now…hoping that goes away in time and better display ideas. I think I regret all my purchases pin or not if I don't interact or look at them often.

 

[froggerway]

although I still can't bring myself to spend $100 on a single pin. (But I'm a grad student so that's the cost of a textbook or food for a month)

Holy cow, what a deal! As an undergrad, I don't think I ever paid less than $120 on any single book (even used) and those few were usually side texts and never the primary text, LOL.

 

[TinyTink]

Wow, this is a great thread and gets to the heart of why we collect/trade.

Firstly, I agree with everyone here that advises (a) never buy pins that one can't afford or (b) never buy pins as a 'financial' investment. Pins are not a retirement plan or even a vacation savings plan; they are little pieces of art. If you are interested in making money, it's probably best to seek professional financial planning services!

Personally, I have never had a single episode of remorse about buying a grail for a price I believed fair at the time, independent of whether the price rose or fell afterwards. Mostly, because I have never bought anything that caused even a tiny, tiny bit of financial hardship. It's the same as going out to a gourmet restaurant - one only should do that if they love a particular gourmet food and have the budget for it. Otherwise, it just causes heartburn when the bill comes! As for me, I just prefer to take my restaurant money and spend it on pins...

That being said, I think the future of Disney Pins is neither 'gloom and doom' nor a never ending cycle of positive growth in prices. Those of us who have been around a long, long time know about the whims of pin fads and the ebb and flow of the 'latest' craze. And, while most pins will certainly have great value in the eyes and hearts of their owners, most will become simply beloved curios. However, one should also make sure to protect their 'curios' with insurance if the financial investment was significant.

On a positive note, I believe there will - eventually (longer term, not tomorrow or even next year) be some rare pins or exceptionally well curated collections that rise to a different level, and are included in high end auction house events that focus on contemporary art or Disneyana collections.

Your thoughts?

Happy Trading!

 

[mattspins]

I don't think I've ever paid more than 35 bucks for a pin, but that being said, I've amassed quite the collection with podms, ptds, ptns, jumbos, Disney auctions, and lots of dsf pins. You just have to find the deals and then trade them. If you really are devoted, you can sometimes find ptds or equivalents for 50% of their going rates. It's not every day, and sometimes you have to search for misspelt auction titles and hidden lots, but you'll find them. I once bought a lot of Donald Duck pins for 70 bucks that included the Baseball Donald Ptd, Sorcerer Donald, multiple WDI Donalds, and the entire D23 Donald in costume set. I kept the costume set, then traded the sorcerer for 2 UK Disney Store LE500 (one Alice and one pinocchio), and a Tramp paris ptn, then traded baseball Donald for a spherical stained glass rapunzel, yzma cat ptd, le500 captain hook, and multiple other LE Donald Ducks. Those opportunities don't come around often, but that's what makes this hobby so fun, trading pins you don't need for pins you do need. Sure, I occasionally want to buy an expensive pin, but generally I can find it in a trade for a couple I already have instead.

 

[Guy the Ghoul]

I would buy any grail that is Haunted Mansion related because it's my favorite attraction at DLR, and is similar to my love of the horror genre. Not because they might go up in value, it's for the love of the pin. Last year, I spent $1,000.00 to obtain the 3 Haunted Mansion marcasite pins in the black velvet boxes to complete my O-Pin House collection that came out in June of 2009 for the HM's 40th anniversary. I don't regret the purchase at all. It's VERY rare to find all 3 marcasites for sale in a complete set. They were an LE50.

 

[Addicted to Alice Pins]

WOW. Congratulations on acquiring such an amazing grail (not just b/c of your interest in HM ... the set sounds awesome even to someone who doesn't collect HM). For me, I would definitely say that's how I feel about the Alice pins I consider grails: They are, out of the entire universe of AiW pins, the ones I most want to own, for the love of the pins and the characters/artwork, not for value. There are many other Alice pins that I would "like" to have but that I could live without and/or would be less willing to "fork over" for. As FroggerWay said, there are some pins that just aren't worth as much to the collector personally (never mind "street value"). I know there have been times when I've made an offer on a pin and the counteroffer has just been more than I would pay for that particular pin. Those situations I can walk away from without too much regret, knowing that eventually I will find a better deal (for me) and that if it takes YEARS to find it, I won't feel bereft. It's the grails that keep me awake at night (ha ha, not really).

I'm really enjoying people's responses not only b/c I requested input and find it helpful but also because, as TinyTink said, it's fascinating to learn how different people approach their collections.

I would buy any grail that is Haunted Mansion related because it's my favorite attraction at DLR, and is similar to my love of the horror genre. Not because they might go up in value, it's for the love of the pin. Last year, I spent $1,000.00 to obtain the 3 Haunted Mansion marcasite pins in the black velvet boxes to complete my O-Pin House collection that came out in June of 2009 for the HM's 40th anniversary. I don't regret the purchase at all. It's VERY rare to find all 3 marcasites for sale in a complete set. They were an LE50.

 

[momin.ator]

Alice, thanks for this thread. I have found it very interesting. It is wonderful to see what others have to say.

 

[Guy the Ghoul]

Say there Addicted to Alice Pins, if you want to see the thread I started on my HM Marcasite pins and a photo of what they look like, go to page 2, 6th topic from the bottom.

 

[nsingleton]

For me, it first depends on do I have the money to spend...unfortunately it seems like bad luck has been following me for a few years now and I usually do not have the money, so I have a LOT of those "DARN :facepalm:" moments!!! :lol: However, if I ever did have the money, it would depend on just how much I wanted the pin at hand! I have had a very few times when a pin came up, and I actually had a little extra cash on hand, and only once did I actually buy the pin, and only because it was one of my most sought after pins for my collection!

 

[PersinettePins]

This is something I struggle with constantly! I am a poor college student saving to buy my first condo/townhouse and to move out on my own, and as much as I love and adore my collection, the temptation is there to liquidate it for the very practical desire and investment of home ownership. I don't collect for the 'investment' aspect of pins at all, that is a far too dangerous game and, as an art and story fan, I just love what my collections represent and mean to me. That said, if I can sell my Art of Ariel for almost half a grand.... that is a HUGE step towards a down payment for me. I know she won't hold that value forever. Do I hold onto her and love her, or let her go and make progress towards a home? Maybe rebuy her one day when the market deflates? Or take the risk she will go up farther in value and be in permeant collections by then? Collecting can be tough and make you really question your life priorities. (especially when you want to start a new Alice in Wonderland pin collection with sides of Pink Dress Cinderella and some Sleeping Beauty! lol)

There are only a few pins I would never part with. One is my Beauty and the Beast and the Beast LE 100 Transformation pin. In spite of the huge current price tag on that one, it was an incredible gift from a dear friend and will never leave my collection short of a dire emergency. It will get it's own personal little framed shadow box for my desk. I don't care if it drops in value to .50 cents. Many of my favorite pins are, thankfully, not coveted/valued so I have no qualms about keeping them (I like vintage pins with the clear gel enamel coating and those tend to be cheaper).

The only way I got some of the 'grails' I currently own (Designer Couple Belle and Beast, Art of Ariel) was a good friend helped me buy the Frozen Sorcerer Hat set direct from Disney at the height of its popularity. I was able to make some major trades with that set and for $175 retail value was able to trade for about $1000 worth of pins.

I am *slightly* embarrassed to say the most I spent on a pin was $175. Logically that is a lot of money for a piece of metal. For me, it has to do with the VHTF aspect. How often does this pin come to market? How rare is it? What are the odds I will be able to ever find it again? What does the movie it's from mean to me? There was a vintage Ariel with a Contract Scroll in the background pin on eBay that I desperately wanted (0 trading on PinPics). I've never seen it before in my life, I thought it was a myth! Unfortunately, the bid went up to over $200 and I couldn't justify that/afford it, even though I will probably never find that pin again in my life. However, I was able to trade a VHTF vintage Gurgi pin for a VHTF Ariel and Eric Dancing pin. I have no idea the monetary value of either of those pins, but for me that tiny faded Ariel pin was a huge grail even if it is only word $1. I've never seen it on the market before or since that trade (the 1 on Pin Pics is from who I traded it from, I think they have' updated their profile yet).

I try to separate my funds into liquid 'life spending' money (food gas, rent, etc.), savings for big purchase (house), retirement savings, and fun money. Fun money can be for pins, trips, whatever. What gets hard is justifying not selling things for those big 'adult, responsible' expenses. We all come up with our own justification systems (mine is I am debt free, own my own car, and--because of the Frozen purchase--and still on track for have only spent 'retail' value for my pins if I added them up cumulatively and not look at their individual price tags.)

As previously stated, you can luck into some amazing deals in this hobby that help with the accumulation process. Plus, never discount the amazing generosity of the pin trading community! Some truly inspirational stories have floated through these forums.

 

[Propita]

This is a great thread. The posts are very good.

I've cut down my collecting, but I still have grails, most vhtf and/or expensive. I posted a thread in "Other Disney Collectibles" most of my Club 33 collection. I am still missing about 6 pins (old logo); they are going for about $200 each, once in a while less--but that's when I can find them. I've been collecting them for almost 20 years; I stupidly missed some when they were cheaper and I wouldn't splurge.

I do have 7 of the first 9 BT pins, bought in 2009, when they had ALL of those available. They're staying for now.

 

[OlafOlaf]

I just splurged (because I wanted to use the money for tuition). Damn you, pins. $85, not bad. You can tell I have my priorities in order.

 

[Addicted to Alice Pins]

I just splurged (because I wanted to use the money for tuition). Damn you, pins. $85, not bad. You can tell I have my priorities in order.

Ooooohhhhhh. <hug> It's OK; we've all done it at some point. And believe me, as I indicated at the start, I wish now that I had been less "virtuous" when I saw the Alice BT for $80. Yes, at that moment in time, the $80 would have tipped me over my personal budget (not into the poorhouse, just more than I wanted to be spending, in general, at the time). But it would have taken no time to pay off the ol' credit card, even with a higher balance than I wanted, than it will to offset a $200 expenditure if I splurge now. I think that's my current sticking (kicking myself) point: Spending $80 then, even if the timing wasn't ideal, would have been WAY better than forking over $200 NOW. Alas ... I hope your splurge brings you great joy!!!

 

[OlafOlaf]

Yeah, the Alice BT for $80 would've been a great price! But believe me, I've skipped on so many grails for great prices I've smacked myself in the head until it got blue. So so many times.

And yes, I have no regret hehe. The pin usually sells for $100-120 so I thought $85 was great. It was time for to get a grail, since it's been a while! And sometimes you just need to get SOMETHING to ease that annoyance lol.

Ooooohhhhhh. <hug> It's OK; we've all done it at some point. And believe me, as I indicated at the start, I wish now that I had been less "virtuous" when I saw the Alice BT for $80. Yes, at that moment in time, the $80 would have tipped me over my personal budget (not into the poorhouse, just more than I wanted to be spending, in general, at the time). But it would have taken no time to pay off the ol' credit card, even with a higher balance than I wanted, than it will to offset a $200 expenditure if I splurge now. I think that's my current sticking (kicking myself) point: Spending $80 then, even if the timing wasn't ideal, would have been WAY better than forking over $200 NOW. Alas ... I hope your splurge brings you great joy!!!