Putting on my flame-proof suit......

[Spiffie]

I realize that I am about to open a can of worms, but I just need to ask, so here goes....

What's everyone opinion of the selling of these Alice in Disneyland Un-Event pins? I didn't ask anyone to help me get any of the pins because I am not an Alice collector in general. I have a lot of Cheshire pins, but for a different reason. But, I have to say that I am shocked and disappointed in the prices that people are asking for these pins. Some people on the SALE board have only registered to sell the pins and have never posted before - which worries me and bothers me at the same time!

I remember not too long ago when Crystal (CaliGirlUCR) went out of her way to help so many of us get DSF pins at her cost because she was already going to the pin sale. So many people here help each other get pins for no other reason than to help someone else enjoy the hobby. But these people who are funding their pins thru others just doesn't sit right with me. Am I in the miniority? Are the same people who have the prices raised on these pins the same people who will want pins at cost from the RSPs from September's Florida Project or are these people always in it to make money?

Again, I realize that I am putting myself in the line of fire here, but I just need a better understanding of this "pins for sale" practice.:sad:

 

[JAllenWood]

I kind of have the same feeling. I have seen some of the prices and just thought to myself, "I'm sure glad I don't collect AIW pins". :sad:

 

[lemec]

+1

 

[kidup]

You are not the only one. I was really let down.

 

[centavo03]

totally agree, it looked fishy and not cool when i saw new users with no feedback posting only in sales boards...i sorta like the way the vinyl site handles newbies. they have a wait period of 14 days and 50 posts until you can even start trading or selling.

 

[YoSoyAhPuch]

I've been thinking the same thing, especially with how heated the alice topic got. Is there much of a difference buying the pins to sell them on ebay as compared to here?

 

[DISNEYPINS99]

its a mixed bag, I have gotten pins from DSF, and Dland for several people, at cost, to help them get pins. But on the flip side when those same people we help, wont return the favor when they have access to pins we want, or have pins we want for trade, choose not to help us, it makes us want to stop helping. I have no decided to only help board members I know get pins at cost for this reason.

 

[hopemax]

I kind of have the same thought. I kind of understand the pre-sales, because no one knew if the pins would have been obtainable by even by the people that had wristbands. However, finding out that everything was available in the 2nd chance line, and some stuff was available today, I have wondered why we haven't seen any, "Since there was stuff leftover, here are a couple pins available at cost, first come first serve." Although, it does put people in a tricky situation, if they sold above cost in a pre-sale. And it would be potentially upsetting to buyers who paid pre-sale prices.

 

[talesoftobv]

Well, I know one reason they are so high are because the unevent was on a Saturday, so a lot of pass holders had to pay to get in. I assume that was part of it. They needed to make up for some of it. As for the super high prices, it's up to them on what they want to sell their pins for.

It's all fine and dandy to be nice, but the unevent was a different breed than just picking up some pins on a casual visit. People had to wait in line for hours, HOURS, possibly pay extra to get in if they did not have a premium pass at their disposal, and deal with a bunch of other crazies. I think in this instance it is fine for the upcharge, it seemed like a huge pain in the *** to pick up those pins, especially if you weren't doing it for yourself.

I offer my services for casual trips to DSf or DLR, because I usually am A, going there anyway or am close. If it was a special event, or unevent, that looked like a lot of hassle, I would sell the merch at a high price because of the time it cost me and the effort.

 

[Gloomy]

Tanya hit all the marks. In my case, I'm an independent contractor that gave up an earning Saturday to go to the event, then took the double-whammy of paying to get into the park. I'm cool with doing free DSF runs and helping people out on releases like that, but this kind of event is a different beast. A DSF run takes work and time (especially a huge one like the Awards Season release run Crystal did), but if I'm doing one of those, I can schedule it appropriately to best fit my week. I don't have to be there at 7 AM on a Saturday and then stand around for hours afterwards. They also aren't charging me to get in the door at the Soda Fountain. 🙂 The Un-Event required far more time and money.

As for the new members who signed up solely to unload some of their pins, I'm not going to throw any stones. More sellers = more competition on price, which benefits the DPF community overall. As long as none of those sellers were out to scam anybody, it seems like a positive.

I'm actually surprised that this issue keeps coming up for this event, when the topic is never broached for say, DLRP PTN pins and the usual 200% to 300% markup sellers routinely charge for them. I was really hoping we were past the wave of Un-Event negativity. haha

The cast members were great.

I just want to second this. The cast members were all uniformly amazing, friendly, and helpful. Some of them had to work 'til close at 11 PM the night before; didn't get home until after midnight; and then showed up for work before 6 AM morning-of. And there was no way to tell. The event staff all had incredible attitudes, and it really set the tone for the day.

-JD

 

[bombardon3]

There's a thin line between helping out and taking advantage. I've been going back and forth on whether or not to keep my framed set. It was an impulse buy since I was surprised they were still available by the time I got to the front of the line. Normally I never buy frame sets and when I got home I was reminded again of why: no place to put it. I'm going to try and do some trading with it, but if I have no luck I'm leaning towards selling it. I did some quick math to figure out what a fair price would be and figured out that after taxes, payment fees, and shipping; for me to break even, the price I would have to ask for would be pretty close to what a lot of people are offering theirs for (but nothing close to the $450 people are asking for on Ebay). So I do view most of the people here as offering up their pins to those who couldn't make as opposed to trying to make a quick buck.

 

[kyuubee]

I realize that I am about to open a can of worms, but I just need to ask, so here goes....

What's everyone opinion of the selling of these Alice in Disneyland Un-Event pins? I didn't ask anyone to help me get any of the pins because I am not an Alice collector in general. I have a lot of Cheshire pins, but for a different reason. But, I have to say that I am shocked and disappointed in the prices that people are asking for these pins. Some people on the SALE board have only registered to sell the pins and have never posted before - which worries me and bothers me at the same time!

I remember not too long ago when Crystal (CaliGirlUCR) went out of her way to help so many of us get DSF pins at her cost because she was already going to the pin sale. So many people here help each other get pins for no other reason than to help someone else enjoy the hobby. But these people who are funding their pins thru others just doesn't sit right with me. Am I in the miniority? Are the same people who have the prices raised on these pins the same people who will want pins at cost from the RSPs from September's Florida Project or are these people always in it to make money?

Again, I realize that I am putting myself in the line of fire here, but I just need a better understanding of this "pins for sale" practice.:sad:

Nah I don't think you're putting yourself in the crosshairs here.
I agree that the markups are way too absurd,especially for the mystery pins.And even some of the other pins.I understand people had to win the RSP or do the 2nd chance,and pay to get in unless they have premium passes(and we also forget,most of the buyers did NOT pay full price,as passholders get discounts) and possible lost wages but still,it's a bit harsh. I get that people wanna recoup their losses,but I am also sure there are plenty of people who didn't have any monetary losses and who already planned to be in line to get some pins for themselves,who are now selling pins at the huge markup.

While it is indeed a different deal than most DSF releases,I still wish I'd seen a post or two of members selling the pins to others at cost or just flat out offering to pick up extras for other members who had no way to be here. (I suppose this couldve happened thru pm for someone)

As far as the members who just joined and are only posting in the sale thread,I'm neutral-ish,as they are at the current moment merely faceless personality-less people selling,and not people who we all see and converse with on a constant basis.

Of course my opinion changes as time goes by obviously,I wouldn't expect someone to sell me any chasers at base cost in a year.But amongst this pin trading family here,I kind of did expect some better pricing,but again perhaps those offers were made in PM for fairness,as we can't just open a sale thread and say anyting like "selling unevent pins at cost for people I know who couldn't go,but if we aren't pals,then you pay 250% above cost!"

Tanya hit all the marks. In my case, I'm an independent contractor that gave up an earning Saturday to go to the event, then took the double-whammy of paying to get into the park. I'm cool with doing free DSF runs and helping people out on releases like that, but this kind of event is a different beast. A DSF run takes work and time (especially a huge one like the Awards Season release run Crystal did), but if I'm doing one of those, I can schedule it appropriately to best fit my week. I don't have to be there at 7 AM on a Saturday and then stand around for hours afterwards. They also aren't charging me to get in the door at the Soda Fountain. 🙂 The Un-Event required far more time and money.

As for the new members who signed up solely to unload some of their pins, I'm not going to throw any stones. More sellers = more competition on price, which benefits the DPF community overall. As long as none of those sellers were out to scam anybody, it seems like a positive.

I'm actually surprised that this issue keeps coming up for this event, when the topic is never broached for say, DLRP PTN pins and the usual 200% to 300% markup sellers routinely charge for them. I was really hoping we were past the wave of Un-Event negativity. haha



I just want to second this. The cast members were all uniformly amazing, friendly, and helpful. Some of them had to work 'til close at 11 PM the night before; didn't get home until after midnight; and then showed up for work before 6 AM morning-of. And there was no way to tell. The event staff all had incredible attitudes, and it really set the tone for the day.

-JD

The staff was excellent! They held up well and managed everything so professionally.I was pleasantly surprised.I'd forgotten how nice staff at the park can be.

 

[Martin B]

It is a bit off putting that some people have joined the forum and there first post is to sell Alice un-event pins!! 🙁

On other forums you have to have a certain post requirement to view and post on such boards.

Maybe this could be introduced. With a requirement of say 10 or even 25 posts?

Martin 🙂

 

[tiggermickey]

It is a bit off putting that some people have joined the forum and there first post is to sell Alice un-event pins!! 🙁

On other forums you have to have a certain post requirement to view and post on such boards.

Maybe this could be introduced. With a requirement of say 10 or even 25 posts?

Martin 🙂

Martin,
I love that idea!!

 

[kyuubee]

Martin,
I love that idea!!

I do too,perhaps one of us should make the suggestion in the suggestion thread? (I'll leave it up to Martin since he had the idea,but if he doesn't want to I will gladly do it)

Some forums require X amount of days & posts or just X days or X posts before the member can open a thread at all,but I think here it should namely pertain to the selling thread.Perhaps an X Day limit to avoid someone just getting the X required posts by randomly posting in various threads.
Also I'd probably avoid a limit on the trade boards,or a much smaller one,since some people may have found out very late or even at the event itself and only wish to trade and not use this place as a means to sell without fees

It'd be even cooler if it was possible to make it so the minimums would not pertain to people opening up "looking to buy" threads,but since selling/buying is combined in one sub-section it would be impossible (until we get a seperate section for selling and buying *crossing fingers on that one*

 

[tiggermickey]

YEAH I would even suggest it too,but its up to Martin to do that

 

[jjgasman]

Spiffie, you did nothing wrong to bring this issue to light. Thanks.
There are two types of pin traders here: those that trade pins for pins, and those that trade pins for money. If someone is price-gauging, we have the opportunity to NOT PURCHASE from them. If they want to invest their money in a bunch of pins for resale, they're taking a risk. If nobody buys, they're out a bunch of money. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over this.

If there's a pin being released that you want and you can't get to the site of release, you know who you can contact for assistance. There are plenty of traders here who are reliable and honest and will get you your pins for cost (or close to it).

Again, we have the opportunity to NOT buy from certain people (gaugers). If we don't patronize them, they will realize there's no market here for their "products." At least they aren't selling counterfeits and scrappers, lol.

 

[swim2sea]

I think it's a make the big bucks while the bucks are there kind of thing. I'm going to take a chance and play the wait and see game. I can almost bet that the prices will come down. It's been that way for every big event. Remember the Cheshire cat dentist sign from last year's Trade City? Now they are selling for about the price they were at the event. It's just plain ole ordinary greed and it's something that everyone has. So, I've donned my flame proof suit and helmet so go ahead a shoot me.

 

[Abyssinian28]

It is a bit off putting that some people have joined the forum and there first post is to sell Alice un-event pins!! 🙁

On other forums you have to have a certain post requirement to view and post on such boards.

Maybe this could be introduced. With a requirement of say 10 or even 25 posts?

Martin 🙂

Nooooooooooooooo! I am *majorly* against this!

I *still* can't view several boards on vinyalnation.net, because they have the ridiculous policies in place. I just don't *know* enough about vinyls to get my post requirements that high, and eventually, I got frustrated and abandoned the boards. One of the ways I get to know what's going on in a new hobby is to check out things like Trades and Sales forums- leaving newbies out just leaves them exposed to the sharks and such. They basically curtailed my interested at a time when I was ramping up...

EDIT: It also creates a glut of "Me, too!" and spam posts while people just try to get their post requirements.

 

[PixieDust]

Spiffie, I'm with you! I was actually able to get a few of the Alice pins on ebay for a much better deal than on here. I got the doorknob jumbo for $20.00 less than any of the sale listings on here. Let's just put it this way, come Sept. (The Florida Project) there are certainly MANY folks I'd be glad to help out, such as caligirl who is consistantly helping others on this board. Then there are others who I won't be so eager to help.

As for the new members that come on just to sell these items, I wouldn't even think about making a purchase from someone with no track record on the DPF, just too risky for me. Does is worry me that they post their sale on here? No, I think most members would think twice before handing their hard earned money over to someone with a nonexistent post count.

 

[Masamune]

🙂 All I can say is that I'm no longer worried about getting the Cheshire Lose Something pin. Before the event, the prices for this pin were stupidly inflated. Right now on PinPics there's 24 trading and 39 wanting. This was the pin I liked most in the event, so I'm glad that they've not ended up being as valuable as what people made them out to be before the release.

 

[erudolf]

This is kind of a complicated subject....

First - Prices
The collectors kind of shot themselves in the foot on this one. There was sooooooo my hype around the release, nobody being able to get mystery pins, getting knocked out of the RSP, etc. I think this only drove the prices up. Sellers read the boards too and when they see people franticly looking for these pins and saying that they can't find anything.....guess what....up goes the price. Also, there are some people that will try and get what you want just to make themselves feel like they beat you or something....pretty pathetic, but they are out there.....

Now, the price points....I don't know.... Some of them really aren't that unreasonable. I bought the doorknob jumbo off ebay for $60 which I thought was reasonable. The framed set....eh...prices may be a bit high...but lugging around a framed set all day and then shipping it off is a pain. The mystery pins....those are a little crazy. I was shocked to hear that there were so many left at the end of the second chance line. That seems very odd. But, they are also the best way to make your money back. They were the cheapest pins you could get that day and people love mystery pins. There isn't a whole lot of room for markup on a $40 jumbo....but on a $8 mystery pin there is a lot of upside. I think some of the prices on ebay are flat out insane......but 25-30 bucks....:dunno: Disneystore.com has priced LE 150 sets at $25 per pin before....granted, these are a bit smaller...but fairly hot. Very difficult to say on this one.

Bottom line on the prices....if you don't like them, don't pay them. Nobody NEEDS any pin. If you WANT it so bad that you are willing to pay the price, then that is what it was worth to you. If the prices are set too high, then few people will buy them and the prices will eventually come down...that's just the way it works. But, you have to be ready to pounce when they do come into your price range because as soon as they do other people will start buying as well.

Second - Selling at markup
The price mark-ups....I'm struggling with this one because I painfully remember being shut out of Disneystore.com releases for awesome pins (back when they had them 🙁 ) and then seeing them listed on ebay for double or more the price. That still infuriates me, but I think there is one key difference between that situation and this one, at least from my perspective. The difference is, I can buy pins from Disneystore.com myself. I don't need anyone's help and I don't need to travel anywhere. So when a seller would swoop in and buy 25 or more LE 100 sets (this was before limits were in place and when they actually released pins that needed a limit....but I digress) it was like they were litterally stealing the pins from my cart. It made me feel like it was the day after Thanksgiving, standing in line at the checkout with my treasures, and then some 'ol bat comes along and takes the stuff out of my cart!

For a park release however....I feel a bit differently. I can't get those pins just as easily as everyone else and the likelyhood of me spending the money just to go to a pin release is very low. And if I did....I'd probably be selling off my extras to try and cover the cost....so, the mark-up to me is kind of a "fee for service" type of thing. They provided me a service that I couldn't do myself, so I'm willing to pay more for that. Still cheaper than me going myself.

Third - Helping People
I know that some people like to think that everything is rainbows and gumdrops here....but it isn't. When it comes right down to it....we really don't even know each other. I have only met a handful of people here in person and only had an extended conversation with a few. So, how willing are people willing to help complete strangers? What Caligirl does for example is great, but at some point she has to think about herself from a trading perspective. If every time you had access to a great pin at retail you just used them to help other people, how would you ever get the pins your are looking for? If you just give away all your good stuff at cost then you will never get ahead in your own pin goals.

For example, say someone's holy grail is an old DA LE 100 pin that came out before they started collecting and is a pin that sells for $200 on ebay. And let's say that this person has nothing good enough to trade for it and they don't have $200 to spend on a pin. How will they ever get it? Rely on the help of people they have never even met....they'll be waiting for a very long time. So, what are their other options? Well, if they are close to a park they can attend a hot pin release and pick up some pins as traders. Maybe they will get lucky with them....but since they are new, people with their grail pin probably either already got them or will turn their nose up at "new" pins, or, they will expect them to be traded at retail while their pin is valued at the $200 market value. So, this person now has good pins, but still can't trade for what they want. They can sit on them or try to make some strategic trades, working toward their grail....or....they can mark up their new pins, raise the $200, and then just buy the darn thing. If they do that, depending on what the markup is, they may have gotten their grail for 50% or less than the market price. BUT, if people expect them to offer up their extras at cost just because they are members of a board...they can kiss that grail goodbye.

Closing
I know this was looooong....but these things aren't so cut and dry. Just because people sell their pins for profit doesn't make them evil. Now, if they sell their pins at a high markup but want pins at cost...then they might be a d-bag. But, every situation is different. Two different people could have the same pin listed at the same price and I might be more tolerant of one than the other based on their previous behavior. If you are a person who has shown patterns of unethical or self-centered behavior, it doesn't matter what your prices are, I'll want nothing to do with you. But if you are a good trader and member who is just trying to gain a little ground...I have not problem buying from you at markup as long as the price is reasonable.

In the end, the power of whether to buy something or not is up to you and if prices really are unfair, they will come down. But if they continue to sell at the prices they are at now....I guess you can't really say they are unfair. :dunno:

 

[Spiffie]

Thanks to everyone for your replies!

Let me say that if you ONLY went to the event for someone else as a paid pin purchaser and not to purchase pins for yourself, then I understand that concept. HOWEVER, if you were going for yourself, purchased more than you NEED, and then tried to off-load those extra pins at an inflated price to recover some of your costs, THAT is a lousy practice and in MY OPINION makes you a person of undesirable character.

And since I now know that I am not the only person who thought the practice was in bad taste, I will rest it!

 

[erudolf]

Thanks to everyone for your replies!

Let me say that if you ONLY went to the event for someone else as a paid pin purchaser and not to purchase pins for yourself, then I understand that concept. HOWEVER, if you were going for yourself, purchased more than you NEED, and then tried to off-load those extra pins at an inflated price to recover some of your costs, THAT is a lousy practice and in MY OPINION makes you a person of undesirable character.

And since I now know that I am not the only person who thought the practice was in bad taste, I will rest it!

I don't really get that logic....so if someone pays you to go get the pins then it is ok but if you get any for yourself it isn't? Why? Nobody likes paying marked up prices. But, aren't all "grails" marked up???? People's signatures here are littered with pins that routinely cost $100 plus on ebay. Why is that price ok for an old grail but not ok for a new one?

I could understand your point if there were hardcore collectors who attended the event but still couldn't get what they wanted. But from the sound of it, everything was available in the second chance line. So, nobody who actually put the effort into going should have missed out.

 

[kriscar]

Lots of interesting views on this thread!

Really agreed with Erudolf's point though about older holy grails which are priced at $75, $100 or more and generally accepted. What makes pricing these pins similarly offensive? A grail is typically a grail because of low supply and high demand...same with the Alice pins.