Pinpics Proposes Ebay Photo Use Ban

[latemetal]

The fact is that until the Terms of Use are updated, every picture added to PinPics was done so granting permission for anyone to freely use on eBay with credit to PinPics. I don't see how Lansam can revoke the permission that the original owners have granted. This argument changes once the ToU is updated but we are not there yet.

 

[erudolf]

This is also in the current TOU. Sounds like there was never a guarantee that privileges wouldn't be revoked.

"Our administrators reserve the right to remove or edit any material added to this site for any reason. However, the administrators will normally restrict themselves to editing content which conflicts with the terms outlined in this document. Our administrators also reserve the right to deny service to anyone for any reason.

PIN PICS IS INTENDED FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES AND IS PROVIDED AS-IS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, INCLUDING ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL PIN PICS BE LIABLE FOR DIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING FROM THE USE OF THIS SITE, THE CONTENT OF THIS SITE, OR THE AVAILABILITY OF THIS SITE."

 

[TiggerNut]

Those sorts of statements are typically unenforceable by the courts. They are usually consider boilerplate and/or just attempts to thwart suit. It has no legal effect whatsoever..no different than what a ticket from the parking garage reads.

If it had effect, everyone would disclaim liability in every scenario.

 

[matt24256]

I always donated to pinpics for the hosting services when the donation drives occured since I started selling pins on ebay. I figured it was the least I could do for them for letting me provide a pic and description of the pins without actually having to take the pins I bought out of the package/sleeve/box etc... I list alot of auctions unopened to give a clear sense they are brand new pins from Disney directly. Also it saves time. So I donated when asked. Plus it made me feel like I owned a little bit of pinpics since I had invested some money (and pin photos) like so many of us to keep a detailed directory of the pins we love. So to ban use of pinpics pictures, makes me feel like my contributions were all for naught. I think that is what many of us are upset over. We've collected pins over the years, seen the database grow, contributed pictures, updates, notes, and money to keep pinpics going strong. Our contributions helped us feel like we were investors in a startup company. Now that our startup company has been sold to another corporation and we found out all our work is no longer ours to use as we had in the past we are upset. I hope lansam reconsiders, because at a time when we are seeing Disney start to pull back from pins (lack of original pins at Disney Shopping, less pins that are only available at just DL or WDW, and removal of pin tables / COAT) the last thing we need to divide us is all this uncertainty that is happening with the holy bible of pin catalogs.

 

[nWoJeffDW]

Correct - but that purpose is not granting Pinpics permission to ban me from my own picture!

This goes back to donating photos from 5 & 10 years ago...do you realize how long it would take to find the original, which is why I gave it to the database in the first place! My CDs are by number of scan, not character or title of the pin. Which is why I have a problem with this decision. My decision was based on it being a tool for myself, while giving the community a better image of the item.

As another concern - what if Pinpics/Lansam decides to implement this policy selectively? Giving their friends permission to use the photos; while reporting photo stealing to Ebay on others?

Ive been holding back reading this debat over the new ownership of pinpics. It's gotten ridiculous. So according to the statement above pinpics can't change their policy because your too lazy to go through your own pictures when you sell on eBay?

Also, you keep creating scenarios that hasn't happened and no indication that it would. Don't worry about things that haven't happened.

I also think its odd that suddenly their are newbies with only 1 or 2 posts chiming in against
pinpics.

Just calm down. And if you're an eBay seller (and those of you complaining the loudest are), suck it up and take photos of the actual pins you're selling. Quit being lazy and having pinpics do you're work for you.

 

[Stitch2814]

All I think is that They are just photos.

if you can get so annoyed over this then thats pretty petty imo Ive uploaded pictures to pinpics. Am I going to want them back, no as I have 1 UP pin that I listed if I remove the picture then it wont have a picture for I dont know how long. Its pretty pathetic to complain about a photo IMHO.

 

[gbdb4ever]

The fact is that until the Terms of Use are updated, every picture added to PinPics was done so granting permission for anyone to freely use on eBay with credit to PinPics. I don't see how Lansam can revoke the permission that the original owners have granted. This argument changes once the ToU is updated but we are not there yet.

NOTE: We are not taking sides, just wondering.

We have contributed over 100 photos to the database (obviously not as many as some of the long-time traders/sellers) with the sole purpose of providing a reference as to what the actual pins look like, nothing else. We are not specifically opposed to our photos being used on ebay, but no "permission" was granted to do so.

So, how is LANSAM to differentiate between those contributors who gave permission for their photos to be used for any purpose and, assuming that they exist, those contributors who did not?

 

[unibear]

Also, you keep creating scenarios that hasn't happened and no indication that it would. Don't worry about things that haven't happened.

Quit being lazy and having pinpics do you're work for you.

First of all, I don't think TiggerNut created the proposed Pinpics policy that "their" (our?) pictures will no longer be allowed on eBay.

So, it's OK for Pinpics to be lazy and allow US to do their work by posting these pins and their pictures, but somehow it's extra wrong or extra lazy for Pinpics to do our work by allowing us to use pictures posted by other community members? Interesting...

And for the record, I have NEVER sold on eBay but I do purchase there a lot. I'm not looking forward to the sudden increase in the number of Disney pins posted with no photos...

 

[Merryweather]

So, it's OK for Pinpics to be lazy and allow US to do their work by posting these pins and their pictures,

I was not in pin trading when Pinpics was started. However, it is my impression that they wanted to share information, have a way to organize collections and give people a platform to trade via snail mail.

I am not sure if it is right to call a non-profit, helpful web-site "lazy" for not taking the pics themselves. My understanding is that the collectors and traders who use Pinpics would help to build the database in exchange for the fun of having access to trades.

So, you are not really doing "their work". You are pitching in so you can organize your own collection and trade on-line.

 

[swim2sea]

My only concern is that this is the start of something bigger. First eBay then what? Any forum other than PinTalk? Will those of us on DPF who use/link those pictures to our trade/sale threads are going to be in trouble. What if I want to have a discussion about a group of pins that I need (such as a grail list)? How can I photograph a pin I don't have? The implications are great and I think we have a right to be concerned. This could be the beginning of the end of the hobby as we knew it. Where information was shared freely and openly. Guess it's a good thing I copied all my information to Excel.

 

[lwrn2]

+1

Granted, i'm not a "power seller" but in all ebay auctions i have made, I have always made it a point to take the most detailed photos I can of the actual item they will be receiving. However, I understand that this is often not feasible for someone that has 5, 10, 20 or more of the same item.

In any case, a photo of one of the actual items in your possession is much better than using stock photos or photos from around the net.

I respectfully disagree and say that it IS feasible, it's just a lot of work! I have been selling on eBay since 1999 (no pins yet however, only buy those) and yes, to run a lot of auctions at a time means hours of work beforehand, mainly taking and editing pictures. Selling on eBay is *work* and to sell more, you need to work at it more. There's nothing stopping anyone from working harder and listing more auctions, other than their own obligations.

To say that over X auctions is too hard so you get to skip steps is silly, in my opinion. As others have said, even with the best of intentions, we miss flaws or overlook things. I think that has happened to every eBay seller out there! (and if it hasn't yet, it will...just human nature). Using the same pictures over and over is bound to lead to this kind of problem at some time, because that picture does not represent the actual item you are selling.

I don't think it's a terrible sin, but I do think it is a risk, and if you choose to take it, acknowledge it as a risk and don't say "well I can't take pictures of my auctions because there are too many of them."

 

[lwrn2]

Hmmmm ....

WINNING AT PIN TRADING :lol:

 

[bretu]

I need to learn how to do that.

 

[Merryweather]

WINNING AT PIN TRADING :lol:

Oh, yeah!

 

[matt24256]

While I have been mainly a lurker, I've been in pins for years (I posted more on dizpins). I didn't post anything before this because I was waiting to see how the switchover would pan out and give them a chance (but I've been reading all the posts). All the excitement I was hoping for has now been replaced by 'why would they do that'? I feel Ebay is the ultimate trade assistant (thats how I use it). I sell the pins I am willing to trade and buy my wants that my 3-4 traders never are able to trade for on pinpics. There is a built in reference center, and I have protection via paypal. To me it just makes no sense to not allow shared pics. Sure I can take my own pics, but I also will increase my price. If anything, I feel like it may be time to just put up my whole lot and move on (keeping my most cherished) before all the fun is sucked out.

 

[nWoJeffDW]

First of all, I don't think TiggerNut created the proposed Pinpics policy that "their" (our?) pictures will no longer be allowed on eBay.

So, it's OK for Pinpics to be lazy and allow US to do their work by posting these pins and their pictures, but somehow it's extra wrong or extra lazy for Pinpics to do our work by allowing us to use pictures posted by other community members? Interesting...

And for the record, I have NEVER sold on eBay but I do purchase there a lot. I'm not looking forward to the sudden increase in the number of Disney pins posted with no photos...

Merryweather answered your first part nicely. Pinpics isn't making money off our efforts but eBay sellers are making money from everyone else's work.

I only sell some pins on eBay when I'm looking to get rid of some pins from my collection or trades. I take pictures of my actual pins to post on my own auctions. It's not that hard.

I buy from eBay too. I've received pins that look different than the pinpics picture used in the auction. I prefer to buy from those that show me a picture of the actual pin I'm getting.

Also, don't worry about the auction without pictures. Just don't buy from them.

 

[nWoJeffDW]

While I have been mainly a lurker, I've been in pins for years (I posted more on dizpins). I didn't post anything before this because I was waiting to see how the switchover would pan out and give them a chance (but I've been reading all the posts). All the excitement I was hoping for has now been replaced by 'why would they do that'? I feel Ebay is the ultimate trade assistant (thats how I use it). I sell the pins I am willing to trade and buy my wants that my 3-4 traders never are able to trade for on pinpics. There is a built in reference center, and I have protection via paypal. To me it just makes no sense to not allow shared pics. Sure I can take my own pics, but I also will increase my price. If anything, I feel like it may be time to just put up my whole lot and move on (keeping my most cherished) before all the fun is sucked out.

This perplexes me. Why would you need to raise your price because you can't use pinpics picture? Is it really that hard to take a photo with your digital camera or phone and post onto eBay?

And why is pin collecting suddenly not fun because you can't use pinpic pictures on eBay? That makes no sense.

 

[Cicada]

I respectfully disagree and say that it IS feasible, it's just a lot of work! I have been selling on eBay since 1999 (no pins yet however, only buy those) and yes, to run a lot of auctions at a time means hours of work beforehand, mainly taking and editing pictures. Selling on eBay is *work* and to sell more, you need to work at it more. There's nothing stopping anyone from working harder and listing more auctions, other than their own obligations.

To say that over X auctions is too hard so you get to skip steps is silly, in my opinion. As others have said, even with the best of intentions, we miss flaws or overlook things. I think that has happened to every eBay seller out there! (and if it hasn't yet, it will...just human nature). Using the same pictures over and over is bound to lead to this kind of problem at some time, because that picture does not represent the actual item you are selling.

I don't think it's a terrible sin, but I do think it is a risk, and if you choose to take it, acknowledge it as a risk and don't say "well I can't take pictures of my auctions because there are too many of them."

true, it _IS_ a lot of work, and many aren't willing to do that.

Say you have 10 of the same pin; it probably isn't worth it for most sellers to take 10 different sets of photos of each pin, catalog/number each pin as it corresponds with the auction #, to ensure that the photos, description, and what the winner will receive all line up. Unless one of the pins has some glaring flaw, it's much easier to take one set of photos, and use them for all 10 auctions, or simply list the item once with a "qty in stock" of 10. And for people who run hundreds or thousands of auctions like this, it isn't worth the time invested. If there's a market for it, and the price is right, someone will buy it eventually.

 

[matt24256]

This perplexes me. Why would you need to raise your price because you can't use pinpics picture? Is it really that hard to take a photo with your digital camera or phone and post onto eBay?

And why is pin collecting suddenly not fun because you can't use pinpic pictures on eBay? That makes no sense.

Since all photos will be individually taken, not all auctions for the same pin will be the same. Presentation. Take a bad photo in the wrong lighting and any pin can look dubious. Itll take time and setup. Using the same pic from pinpic levels the playing field and then it comes down to price / reputation. Ok maybe I wont raise my prices (speaking more in frustration).

This pinpics saga is only a part of the bigger pic. As a mentioned before Disneystore pins are nonexistent, DL/WDW now carry mostly the same pins. Again maybe the above sentence was spoken out of frustration.

Back to lurking.This forum is going to be crazy on April 1st.

 

[leopardpolkadotspots]

My only concern is that this is the start of something bigger. First eBay then what? Any forum other than PinTalk? Will those of us on DPF who use/link those pictures to our trade/sale threads are going to be in trouble. What if I want to have a discussion about a group of pins that I need (such as a grail list)? How can I photograph a pin I don't have? The implications are great and I think we have a right to be concerned. This could be the beginning of the end of the hobby as we knew it. Where information was shared freely and openly. Guess it's a good thing I copied all my information to Excel.

Hi Margaret

How do you export to Excel?

 

[kajtdd]

Pinpics isn't making money off our efforts but eBay sellers are making money from everyone else's work.

Except now Lansam is planning to make money off my personal work product on adding pins, descriptions and images to their Pin Pics database. These additions constitute substantial efforts and work on my part. Over the last 10 years I have taken time out of my personal life to added numerous items to the database on the basis that I and others would be able to access that information in the future. To make such a change is beyond simple adjustments policy but material breaches. Why would I bother to add this data not to be able to access it later?


Additionally, it is unclear on the purpose of this policy. If it is design to ensure people receive the pin the bought, then why should it stop at eBay or even pins acquired through trade? If this policy is to be effective, wouldn’t it apply to all transactions? Does this mean I will now be required to snap photos of each pin and send it to the trader before I make a trade? Time is precious. This policy, implications and the potential effects puts an unnecessary burden on this hobby which will hasten the death of pin trading.
kajtdd

 

[Merryweather]

Except now Lansam is planning to make money off my personal work product on adding pins, descriptions and images to their Pin Pics database.

Please explain how you know that?

If this policy is to be effective, wouldn’t it apply to all transactions?

Why does everybody seem to forget that their proposal is for "COMMERCAL" reasons and not for trading. I think it mostly means people who sell pins as a business, not any of us selling some extra traders here and there.

 

[erudolf]

I have now moved from mild annoyance to disgust with this topic. This is just rediculous....people would honestly consider filing suit of pictures of pins....not even the pins themselves...PICTURES OF PINS!!! Unreal. Aren't there more important things in the world to be fighting for?

The key word is DONATE. Since when does donating something give you the right to dictate that is must be shared? If you donate a can of corn to a homeless shelter are you going to be outraged that they put it in chili rather than as a side because that is how you intended it to be used? This is just so petty to me and makes me want to quit more than anything LANSAM has done.

Honestly, if I were them I'd be so pissed off at this point that I would remove everything some people have contributed to the site and set out on a quest to replace the pins and information. I'd assign new numbers and new names. I'd have the "owns" list at my disposal and I'm sure I'd be able to find people willing to help without the expectation of getting something in return. Sure....I may not find those ultra obscure pins, but I'm guessing the 24 or so people that actually want them will get over it. Especially since there is pretty much zero chance of them ever finding them anyways.

I'm done with this. They could torch the site right now and I wouldn't care. (obviously I would care but I'm so fed up with this bickering right now that this is how I feel at the moment.)

 

[nWoJeffDW]

I have now moved from mild annoyance to disgust with this topic. This is just rediculous....people would honestly consider filing suit of pictures of pins....not even the pins themselves...PICTURES OF PINS!!! Unreal. Aren't there more important things in the world to be fighting for?

The key word is DONATE. Since when does donating something give you the right to dictate that is must be shared? If you donate a can of corn to a homeless shelter are you going to be outraged that they put it in chili rather than as a side because that is how you intended it to be used? This is just so petty to me and makes me want to quit more than anything LANSAM has done.

Honestly, if I were them I'd be so pissed off at this point that I would remove everything some people have contributed to the site and set out on a quest to replace the pins and information. I'd assign new numbers and new names. I'd have the "owns" list at my disposal and I'm sure I'd be able to find people willing to help without the expectation of getting something in return. Sure....I may not find those ultra obscure pins, but I'm guessing the 24 or so people that actually want them will get over it. Especially since there is pretty much zero chance of them ever finding them anyways.

I'm done with this. They could torch the site right now and I wouldn't care. (obviously I would care but I'm so fed up with this bickering right now that this is how I feel at the moment.)

+1

 

[movingthestars]

+2