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Q&A sessions with LANSAM and PinPics

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Q&A sessions with LANSAM and PinPics
I have been quietly following this thread since its start and deliberately not posted anything, but it has gotten to the point where I no longer can remain silent. The lightning rod is up, storm clouds are gathering - and we need to take this down a few notches before we all get electrocuted.

First, let me say that drama is not new to pins and pin trading. As long as there have been pins and pin trading, there has been drama - and I do not believe that drama had anything to do with the decision to close Dizpins (but that's a discussion for another day and another thread, so I won't digress).

That being said, as I've said on numerous times, the Internet is a place where people come together to exchange and share thoughts and ideas. Not everyone is going to agree all the time, which is fine; I believe that when two (or more) people agree all of the time, at least one of them has stopped thinking. One of the great things about DPF is that the administrators and moderators provide a forum which encourages and permits open discussion and exchange of ideas. They trust us to act like adults and post responsibly and maturely at all times, expecting us to treat each other with respect and courtesy, giving us a privilege that isn't found on many other sites.

Which brings me to this thread and, really, the entire series of threads about Pin Pics and Lansam. TiggerNut is posting facts and opinions in a manner that is within TOU (I have no doubt that the administrators and moderators are watching these threads closely and, if they had any problems with what she was posting, they would make said objections known). Like it or not, TiggerNut is a member of this forum and she has just as much of a right to post here as any of us. If you disagree with or don't like the facts and opinions contained within her posts, you have several options:

1. Respond to what she is saying, but make it a mature, adult discussion that focuses on the subject (without making it a personal attack)

2. Just ignore her - Grim has an excellent thread with instructions on how to ignore a member or, if you ask, almost anyone can tell you how to do this

3. Just read the posts but don't respond; if you don't believe you can post something constructive that will advance the discussion in a positive direction, maybe you don't need to post

However, telling members to shut up, stop posting, and go away just is immature and not an appropriate response. IMO, only administrators/moderators have the right to tell a member to stop posting and/or go away - and that would come in the form of a deserved suspension or ban, not posted in frustration or anger in a thread on the boards.

The reason I'm posting this is because I believe in the importance of open discussion. When there is an issue like the future of Pin Pics, we need to be able to discuss the facts (such that they are) and our opinions openly in a mature, adult manner. I think that if threads like these are closed, either another one will emerge to take its place, the discussion will get shoved to the background into whispered rumors and conversations (which I think will be far more damaging to the hobby), or both. Right now, the administrators and moderators are treating us like adults, but that may not last much longer. If we want to be treated like adults, we need to act like it. Otherwise, we may start getting treated like children - and if that happens, we probably won't like it.
 
dancecats said:

Which brings me to this thread and, really, the entire series of threads about Pin Pics and Lansam. TiggerNut is posting facts and opinions in a manner that is within TOU (I have no doubt that the administrators and moderators are watching these threads closely and, if they had any problems with what she was posting, they would make said objections known). Like it or not, TiggerNut is a member of this forum and she has just as much of a right to post here as any of us. If you disagree with or don't like the facts and opinions contained within her posts, you have several options:

1. Respond to what she is saying, but make it a mature, adult discussion that focuses on the subject (without making it a personal attack)

2. Just ignore her - Grim has an excellent thread with instructions on how to ignore a member or, if you ask, almost anyone can tell you how to do this

3. Just read the posts but don't respond; if you don't believe you can post something constructive that will advance the discussion in a positive direction, maybe you don't need to post

However, telling members to shut up, stop posting, and go away just is immature and not an appropriate response. IMO, only administrators/moderators have the right to tell a member to stop posting and/or go away - and that would come in the form of a deserved suspension or ban, not posted in frustration or anger in a thread on the boards.

The reason I'm posting this is because I believe in the importance of open discussion. When there is an issue like the future of Pin Pics, we need to be able to discuss the facts (such that they are) and our opinions openly in a mature, adult manner. I think that if threads like these are closed, either another one will emerge to take its place, the discussion will get shoved to the background into whispered rumors and conversations (which I think will be far more damaging to the hobby), or both. Right now, the administrators and moderators are treating us like adults, but that may not last much longer. If we want to be treated like adults, we need to act like it. Otherwise, we may start getting treated like children - and if that happens, we probably won't like it.
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Well said, but something to consider: This thread was started to discuss questions about the new PinPics and things we can ask the new owners. Right off the bat, I realized this was going to be a hot topic due to the previous threads, so I asked everyone to be polite, be civil, KEEP ON TOPIC, and not to start things that happened in the last thread, and those requests were ignored by Tiggernut. I even agreed with one of her other questions if it was phrased differently, so it is not that I am against her or her ideas, just her presentation. She previously accused members of this board of being on the take, and when confronted, she ignored it and has yet to apologize. Posting that someone "Plead Guilty to Grand Theft" without posting what they were accused of doing is half a story, and does nothing but inflame others. Asking her to stop posting if she can not be civil, or in this case, at least present the entire story instead of just the side that benefits her is IMO, an appropriate response. "Open discussion" only works if the entire story is known, not what is spoon fed to people by those with an agenda.
 
dancecats said:
That being said, as I've said on numerous times, the Internet is a place where people come together to exchange and share thoughts and ideas. Not everyone is going to agree all the time, which is fine;
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How would you feel, if in the name of open discussion we were to dig up the facts about you ... for arguments sake? How would you feel if people who have never met you, just in the name of sharing ideas, started poking at you?

One can argue for example, that you have not linked any Pinpics id - hmmm is this another banned person? If she is banned indeed, I wonder why? Did she pass scrappers? Did she promise to send pins and never did? I wonder what is the story with this user? Does anyone know more about her? ... See the tables can be quickly turned around in the unpleasant direction.

I have to say for my own: What is it with the pink text ? Are we teenagers? It is difficult to read.
dancecats said:
Which brings me to this thread and, really, the entire series of threads about Pin Pics and Lansam. TiggerNut is posting facts and opinions in a manner that is within TOU
Click to expand...

I would not know who wrote the TOU for our forum and I am tired of walking the fine line of legal mambo-jambo. If asking questions is allowed, and if it is with keeping with TOU, I have few questions of my own.

TIGGERNUT ... Please answer these 2 questions:

1. WHEN were you banned from Pinpics ?
2. WHY you were banned from Pinpics ?

I am asking these questions to understand if you might have a personal agenda coming from the past. This of course, is only my opinion.
dancecats said:
The reason I'm posting this is because I believe in the importance of open discussion. When there is an issue like the future of Pin Pics, we need to be able to discuss the facts
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I have asked the above 2 questions exactly for the same reason. If we are discussing the future of Pin Pics here, we need to know some facts about the person who is "posting facts and opinions".
 
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Merryweather said:


How would you feel, if in the name of open discussion we were to dig up the facts about you ... for arguments sake? How would you feel if people who have never met you, just in the name of sharing ideas, started poking at you?
Click to expand...

This. This this this this, this 10 million times. I don't even care about pinpics anymore, just one day am I going to come on here and see my life laid out for all to see, being that we exchange names and addresses in this hobby? Because apparently it is no big deal to dig around and post all the findings.
 
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I asked two mroe questions rtoday having already asked three Inoticed there seems to be a solo usa thread overthe way even though there was a thought in anthoys original message of going international I want to kow if I am being ignored and thsoe of you who know me well thats difficult!

Jacqui
 
Tigger210 said:
I bet this kind of bs and drama is why dizpins closed up shop!
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No, it wasn't. Dizpins was drama central and you won't find any posts from Dizpins because the site was deleted.

I would just like to say, anyone I do business with, I try to find out as much information about. Now this being said, I know Pinpics has always been run on donations but LANSAM has brought up authentication of pins. If someone, like TiggerNut, can find out the background of members of LANSAM, for me so be it. I'm not going to send my pins to some stranger to be authenticated by a stranger I know nothing about.
 
Bellecat22 said:
Now this being said, I know Pinpics has always been run on donations but LANSAM has brought up authentication of pins.
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I have to admit that this confused me. How are donations made for server costs related to authentication??

Bellecat22 said:
I'm not going to send my pins to some stranger to be authenticated by a stranger I know nothing about.
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I am not aware that they are soliciting pins from collectors for authentication.

This is only my guess: They might be consulting someone for trade problems regarding scrapper complaints. I do not think that they would randomly take in people's pins to authenticate, but it is good to have someone experienced if trade complaints arise.
 
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fuzzybunny said:
hopefully some asked my ? about the reference pages when email is changed
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I asked a question about this a while back. Due to typos and some people mixing .net and .com, I now have references under 4 e-mails. So, I sent an e-mail to info@pinpics.com asking to consolidate them.

I was told that the reference part is still on Dizpins and Pinpics does not have access to their server, hence there isn't anything they can do at the moment. I was also told that they are working on getting the reference center under Pinpics and once they manage that, they need people to contact them with requests. All of this was maybe 2 months ago, I am not sure how much progress has been made since then.
 
For all those curious, Lenny has responded to the personal issues being brought up here on pin talk...Nice long write up btw!
xyxthumbs.gif
 
When this is all over, would someone be kind enough to summarize all of this into an easy to read post somewhere? I don't have the patience to wade through the arguing, legit information, and randomness of this thread. Also, it's all so darn confusing!!!
 
Well, just know when you read Lenny's post, know it is chalked full of lies (one, Lenny has NEVER contacted me)..and even has a couple of fun tidbits that reveal my concerns are indeed valid. Keep in mind, I have no desire to be the sole authenticator of pins.

PM if you have a concern about anything you read.
 
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TiggerNut said:
Well, just know when you read Lenny's post, know it is chalked full of lies (one, Lenny has NEVER contacted me)..and even has a couple of fun tidbits that reveal my concerns are indeed valid. Keep in mind, I have no desire to be the sole authenticator of pins.

PM if you have a concern about anything you read.
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Proof? Or in the words of 4chan, pics or it didn't happen.
 
This playing on words habit of yours is getting annoying for me. I am not sure if this is an attorney trick, but the whole meaning changes when one twists or adds few words.

TiggerNut said:
That would contradict Lenny's claim to have communicated to me directly. Lie #1.
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His exact word is "explained" not communicated. Nowhere does he use the word "directly". Now we can argue if one can explain things to another person even without direct conversation/e-mail/any other one-on-one communication. Lenny is part of Lansam and Lansam posted several times that they are against scrappers. I think he means that you chose to ignore their posts.

The incorrect word I see in his statement is "I", it should be changed to "we".
 
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Merryweather said:
This playing on words habit of yours is getting annoying for me. I am not sure if this is an attorney trick, but the whole meaning changes when one twists or adds few words.



His exact word is "explained" not communicated. Nowhere does he use the word "directly". Now we can argue if one can explain things to another person even without direct conversation/e-mail/any other one-on-one communication. Lenny is part of Lansam and Lansam posted several times that they are against scrappers. I think he means that you chose to ignore their posts.

The incorrect word I see in his statement is "I", it should be changed to "we".
Click to expand...

So when Lenny does it, its an "incorrect word" and when tiggernut does it, the whole meaning changes?

Also, for example, when quoting tiggernut in his post, Lenny said "“Hypothetical - What if Pinpics was [sic] bought by a counterfeiter?”" What is the point of the [sic] there. Is he trying to imply that "was" was misspelled? Did tiggernut really mean something else? Seems like they are trying to twist around her quote by putting that in for people reading it from them.
 
I would love to say that the chat answered my concerns, but it really didn't. Putting aside, all the accusations, I'm back with my original concerns of do the new owners are prepared and have enough "pin history" and wherewithal to make sure Pinpics remains a reliable database source.

A lot of comments about the picture usage policy. I don't care so much about the Ebay implications as I don't sell, but I was concerned that it seemed to take so much work to get a straight answer about whether pictures would be allowed on the DPF sale board. And I'm still not sure we have one. The Q&A says "pictures will not be allowed on Ebay or other sale sites." DPF's sale board IS a sale site, so it would seem to say that it would not be permitted. I tried to ask for clarification and got a generic "pictures would be allowed on the forum, but didn't specify whether that included the sale forum." Figgy came to chat here, and she seemed confused. First, she said they wouldn't be allowed, but then later she said they did. ALL of this gives me the impression that things haven't been really been thought through. Then everything else others brought up about copyrights, limited use, etc just makes the issue more unclear on how much thought and understanding has happened. I would have assumed, that since legal counsel has been obtained that these sorts of issues would be nailed down more than they have been.

The second major topic was, on the new site, Pinpics comments will be moderated. And it seems like some information that currently goes in the comments will be shuttled to Pin Talk. This gives me all sorts of concern because the strength of Pinpics is the large community of people providing information. No one person needed to know everything. Moderation narrows it down to a handful of people deciding what information is and isn't appropriate. I feel like a layer of transparency is being taken away. We won't know what things have been asked or information given that didn't make the cut, so we won't know when there is a need for users to speak up and provide verification. I get that reviewing comments is a hassle for the mods, but I don't see how forced moderation makes it any less of a hassle. They still have to look at everything, but the users don't get that opportunity. And I'd rather err on the side of having too much info or discussion about a particular pin, than not enough. Also on the first chat room attempt, there was something said about a periodic "possible scrapper" listing being posted on Pin Talk, and that worries me too, in that it seems like it would give scrapper sellers a "head start" and that it would take LONGER for news about scrappers to make their way around the pin community, and what we really need is a shorter period of time. Plus, by funneling that type of info to Pin Talk I would think it would take the "casual" pin trader more out of the loop. Are they really going to want to use two websites to get the info they need? This is what messed up Netflix's Qwickster debacle. A lack of understanding of how people want to receive their information. And it seems like the casual pin trader is the most in need in having timely updates in an easy to locate manner, and they aren't going to be interested in following a message board.

Along the same lines,I also have concerns about potential premium features, because at one point either in chat or Q&A mention was made of multiple images as one of these premium features. Again, casual traders are the ones that would be most in need of something like this, and the least likely to pay for it. So I am left questioning if educating pin traders in the war against scrappers is the primary goal? At the end of chat I tried to ask if "anything new that helps fight scrappers, will cost money?" But I guess it didn't get seen.

I was also disappointed in how questions in chat were answered. I know it was busy, but I got the feeling that Lansam was more concerned that questions got asked than actually answering them. Several people seemed bothered that their questions weren't answered completely. And rather than ask if the person had anymore questions, or followups, they quickly moved to the next person. At one point, we were asked to have our questions ready. I had several questions, so I typed them up in Word so I could cut and paste. When I pasted, they got truncated, and I didn't know this. My first question, sort of got answered, but not really since the crux of the question didn't make the chat. Nor did my other 3 questions. And then they immediately went to the next person. When I realized it, I tried to repost my questions, they were on to the next set and didn't really seem that interested in going back and answering them and I was told, "sorry hopemax I have to move on you can pm me questions." I felt like I would have better served if I had IGNORED the request to have questions ready, and waited until I was asked. So by trying to do the right thing, I got screwed out of having my questions answered. if I were running the chat, and I found out someone's questions didn't make it. I would have immediately stopped, and made sure they did. But then again, I also would have asked or at least waited to see if people had followups. I felt like there was a "one shot" window. If you didn't ask your question right, or something happened, like what I experienced, "too bad, you missed your chance."

Plus, there was a promise of a website reveal, that turned out to be a logo reveal. I think most of us were expecting to see the front page, or maybe a sample pin page.

I'm still left wondering what Lansam brings to the table besides some sort of nebulous concept of "energy." This hobby, is full of people with energy, so if energy is required, it would be easy to find. And I don't see how it will be easier for people to fight the scrapper problem, which was stated as a primary goal of the new owners when it seems like we're just getting more hoops to jump through.
 
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